Photobucket

It's the U.S. vs. the Egyptian people (Mubarak's just our dictator)

by: fairleft

Fri Jan 28, 2011 at 19:48:43 PM EST


One protester pointed to the fact that the tear gas canisters being used by the police are made in the U.S.

This is not about Mubarak. The U.S., us, we're the real boss in Egypt. The people in the Egyptian streets want democracy. The U.S. certainly does NOT want to give them that, because it rejects who the Egyptians would vote for. If you're uncertain of the preceding truths, simply read more Wikileaks (see below for links).

And then there's why the U.S. requires an oppressive, anti-democratic Egypt, briefly and from an unlikely source, JTA:

Egypt's $1.3 billion in annual aid [from the U.S.] -- most of it in defense assistance -- is rooted in its 1979 peace treaty with Israel.

More on that topic here, in this interview with U.S. state dept spokesman P.J. Crowley on Al-Jazeera (hat tips to Mondoweiss and shergald):

Rattansi: But you have more leverage than that. Surely the secretary of state or the President can speak to President Mubarak and say, "Call off your repressive security forces, now begin a transition to democracy, and stop torturing people."

Crowley: But again, you're casting that in zero sum terms and I reject that. We respect what Egypt contributes to the region, it is a stabilizing force, it has made its own peace with Israel, and is pursuing normal relations with Israel, we think that's important, we think that's a model that the region should adopt broadly speaking. at the same time, we recognize that Egypt, Tunisia other countries do need to reform, they do need to respond to the needs of their people, and we encourage that reform and are contributing across the region to that reform. ...

In any case, if you read and watch the news using my title as your filter, it becomes easy to understand U.S. reaction, and easy to figure out what President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton are likely saying to Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak behind the scenes. The second is way more important, by the way. You wouldn't expect anything different than the following from Ms. Clinton, on ABC:
fairleft :: It's the U.S. vs. the Egyptian people (Mubarak's just our dictator)
A number of Egyptians expressed frustration with the U.S. government and President Obama, telling ABC News that for all the talk about freedom, the U.S. is not supporting it in Egypt. One protester pointed to the fact that the tear gas canisters being used by the police are made in the U.S. ...

Earlier today, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on the Egyptian government to open cell phone and internet lines, and also urged protesters to march peacefully, saying "violence will not make these grievances go away." ...

"We are deeply concerned about the use of violence by the Egyptian police and security forces against protesters, and we call on the Egyptian government to do everything in its power to restrain the security forces. At the same time, protestors should also refrain from violence and express themselves peacefully," Clinton said, in the most forceful tone she has employed since protests began this week. ...

But Clinton dodged ABC News' question about the United States condemning the crackdown and wouldn't respond to questions on Mubarak's fate.

Or this exchange on PBS, with Vice-President Joe Biden, becomes entirely unsurprising if you 'know' that the U.S. and democracy protestors in Egypt are the opposing teams:

JIM LEHRER: The word-the word to describe the leadership of Mubarak and Egypt and also in Tunisia before was dictator. Should Mubarak be seen as a dictator?

JOE BIDEN: Look, Mubarak has been an ally of ours in a number of things and he's been very responsible on, relative to geopolitical interests in the region: Middle East peace efforts, the actions Egypt has taken relative to normalizing the relationship with Israel.

And I think that it would be-I would not refer to him as a dictator.

The latest news is that the U.S. will review aid to our dictatorship. Yes, review the aid, appoint a commission to review it, issue a long-winded report nine months from now. Uh, is anyone buying the mainstream media's notion that the U.S. is somehow 'walking a tightrope between the protestors and Mubarak'? If so, then Wikileaks hasn't done its job: it hasn't taught you to distinguish the tinny-sounding folderol for public consumption and what really goes on behind the scenes. Perhaps read Simon Tisdall at the Guardian for some reality shock therapy:

Caught off guard by the escalating unrest in Egypt, the Obama administration is desperate to avoid any public appearance of taking sides. But Washington's close, longstanding political and military ties to President Hosni Mubarak's regime, plus annual financial support worth about $1.5bn, undermine its claims to neutrality.

While the US favours Egyptian political reform in theory, in practice it props up an authoritarian system for pragmatic reasons of national self-interest. It behaved in much the same way towards Saddam Hussein's regime in the 1980s, when Iraq was at war with Iran. A similar tacit bargain governs relations with Saudi Arabia. That's why, for many Egyptians, the US is part of the problem. ...

Clinton also struck a lopsided note. "Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people," she said. Against a backdrop of street battles, beatings-up, teargas, flying bricks, mass detentions and attempts to shut information networks, her words sounded unreal, even foolish.

Mohamed ElBaradei, the establishment rebel who joined the protests, was flabbergasted. "If you would like to know why the United States does not have credibility in the Middle East, that is precisely the answer," he said.

Below is the essence of an article on the latest Egypt WIKILEAKS cables. By the way, should Obama and Clinton be embarrassed they made a clear policy decision to be even nicer than Bush to 'our' dictator?

WikiLeaks cables: US ambassador in Cairo calls for less confrontation in dealings with Egypt
By Sylvia Hui (CP) - 5 hours ago

The U.S. ambassador in Cairo warned Washington to be less confrontational in its dealings with Egypt, toning down human rights pressure to avoid jeopardizing relations with the Middle East ally, dozens of U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks Friday showed.

... The cables have the potential to aggravate the situation further because they offer specifics on police brutality and unease about the jailing of dissidents.

Before Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's first visit to the Obama White House in 2009, U.S. Ambassador Margaret Scobey had recommended Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to take a more private and less confrontational approach in pressuring Mubarak. ...

She pointed out how former President George W. Bush's public "name and shame" approach had alienated Egypt from U.S. views.


Here's another Wikileaks link: US reported 'routine' police brutality in Egypt, WikiLeaks cables show. We've known for decades what Mubarak is about. Obama and Clinton decided he needed even gentler treatment, along with our yearly bribe of $1.3 or $1.5 billion. Are you angry that we are doing this?
Tags: (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email

It's the U.S. vs. the Egyptian people (Mubarak's just our dictator) | 144 comments
asdf (4.00 / 1)

Here's something very Obama-ish from his Egypt speech tonight: (4.00 / 1)
When President Mubarak addressed the Egyptian people tonight, he pledged a better democracy and greater economic opportunity.

I just spoke to him after his speech, and told him he has a responsibility to give meaning to those words, to take concrete steps and actions that deliver on that promise.

The preceding indicates pretty strongly that Obama believes Egypt has a democracy (!), and that all the U.S. wants Egypt to do is improve it. Unsaid is how little improvement is acceptable ... It's a meaningless demand in the real world. Just words, no concrete demands. Based on the Wikileaks real reality, I bet Obama's real demand is: HOLD ONTO POWER, BUDDY, and we'll give you all the teargas, bullets, and internet jamming you need, We/Israel NEEDS YOU!

Got the quote here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

Should've written "Obama 'believes' Egypt..." (0.00 / 0)

It's clear from Wikileaks that no one in this or the previous administration believes Egypt is anything other than a brutal dictatorship.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
did you read my link (3.67 / 3)
in the other thread?
In a secret diplomatic dispatch, sent on December 30 2008, Margaret Scobey, the US Ambassador to Cairo, recorded that opposition groups had allegedly drawn up secret plans for "regime change" to take place before elections, scheduled for September this year.

The memo, which Ambassador Scobey sent to the US Secretary of State in Washington DC, was marked "confidential" and headed: "April 6 activist on his US visit and regime change in Egypt."

It said the activist claimed "several opposition forces" had "agreed to support an unwritten plan for a transition to a parliamentary democracy, involving a weakened presidency and an empowered prime minister and parliament, before the scheduled 2011 presidential elections". The embassy's source said the plan was "so sensitive it cannot be written down".

Ambassador Scobey questioned whether such an "unrealistic" plot could work, or ever even existed. However, the documents showed that the activist had been approached by US diplomats and received extensive support for his pro-democracy campaign from officials in Washington. The embassy helped the campaigner attend a "summit" for youth activists in New York, which was organised by the US State Department.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory
[ Parent ]
truly hilarious (4.00 / 1)
the documents showed that the activist had been approached by US diplomats and received extensive support for his pro-democracy campaign from officials in Washington. The embassy helped the campaigner attend a "summit" for youth activists in New York, which was organised by the US State Department.

fairLoughner has reached new heights here! It turns out the US has been assisting these Egyptian dissidents all along! yet fairLoughner steadfastly refuses to acknowledge this fact, addicted as he is to his brand of propaganda and ideology!

then Wikileaks hasn't done its job: it hasn't taught you to distinguish the tinny-sounding folderol for public consumption and what really goes on behind the scenes.

wikileaks has done its job, exposing you to be an ass yet again! What's amazing is that when Iran's populace exploded in rage and fury fairLoughner immediately had the US involved, a conspiracy he weaved out of thin air, but here, when the US has actually helped the good guys,democracy seekers, as evidenced in wikileaks, fairLoughner ignores it.

High comedy on the blogging seas!


[ Parent ]
anon was right about this: (4.00 / 1)
and of course the U.S. did none of what he asked, and still hasn't done a damn thing about Mubarak and his cronies' massive foreign bank accounts. Instead, the diplomat made fun of him, strung the naive young man along, and collected info on the opposition. Was this information shared with Israel? Of course. With Egypt: sure. The guy is under arrest right now.

xxxxxxxxxxxx described how he tried to convince his Washington interlocutors that the USG should pressure the GOE to implement significant reforms by threatening to reveal CAIRO 00002572 002 OF 002 information about GOE officials' alleged "illegal" off-shore bank accounts. He hoped that the U.S. and the international community would freeze these bank accounts, like the accounts of Zimbabwean President Mugabe's confidantes. xxxxxxxxxxxx said he wants to convince the USG that Mubarak is worse than Mugabe and that the GOE will never accept democratic reform. xxxxxxxxxxxx asserted that Mubarak derives his legitimacy from U.S. support, and therefore charged the U.S. with "being responsible" for Mubarak's "crimes." He accused NGOs working on political and economic reform of living in a "fantasy world," and not recognizing that Mubarak -- "the head of the snake" -- must step aside to enable democracy to take root.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

Don't you love how our U.S. diplomat puts all that stuff -- "crimes" "illegal" "being responsible" -- in quotes?! Also enjoyed how apparently incompetent U.S. 'help' didn't stop his attendance at the neoliberal conference from being immediately revealed as soon as he returned Egypt.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
In the (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
The diarist forgot the "projection alert". His article fit squarely into the bad propaganda column. No wonder you know nothing. (2.00 / 1)
I read the cable and while it shows the typical stupidity of the US government dunce, its a pretty dry diplomatic intelligence report as opposed to Dead Lenin's "dripping with condescension" characterization.

'fess up, you read the blog bit but not the cable itself didn't you?

[ Parent ]
If there's a power transition, the U.S. wants a neoliberal regime (0.00 / 0)

And one that obeys Israel's wishes. So of course it is throwing a few dollars at co-opting the opposition, especially the 'naive youth' subsection of it.

So much to learn, so little time, but the rewards for being the U.S.'s next 'boy' are so great.

Still, my bet is on Mubarak holding onto power for awhile. The U.S. and Israel like him best, feel most secure with him in power. Later, maybe, a 'democratic' process heavily corrupted by U.S. cash provides Egypt a Obama moment.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
The US paid _1_ activist/informant to attend _1_ US-sponsored 'neoliberal revolution' conference (4.00 / 1)

and this becomes U.S. sponsorship of the rebellion's leadership? Sounds to me more like the U.S. and Israel paid very cheaply for an excellent informant:

The American Embassy in Cairo helped a young dissident attend a US-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police. ...

The documents released by WikiLeaks reveal US Embassy officials were in regular contact with the activist throughout 2008 and 2009, considering him one of their most reliable sources for information about human rights abuses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

Wikileaks:

On December 23, April 6 activist xxxxxxxxxxxx expressed satisfaction with his participation in the December 3-5 "Alliance of Youth Movements Summit," and with his subsequent meetings with USG officials, on Capitol Hill, and with think tanks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
it sounds like this dissident (4.00 / 1)
was indeed a point man for opposition forces, a leader organizing the current upheaval. That you disparage him as an informant is bizarre and psychotic.

It says a leader of the April 6 Youth Movement - a Facebook-driven group that has played a major role in Egypt's current upheaval - told U.S. officials that opposition groups had agreed on a plan to replace the autocrat with a parliamentary democracy, including a weakened presidency and executive prime minister, before scheduled elections in September 2011.

He listed several groups as being part of the scheduled uprising, including the liberal Waft Party, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Revolutionary Socialists and Kefaya, a broad-based reform movement, and said this loose coalition of groups hoped for support from the army and police to form a provisional government ahead of elections.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com...

First you ignored it, now you've left out the full story, spinning it according to your preconceived ideology. I expect nothing less from you.

what was that summit that you've maligned:

The summit, which featured speeches by such people as Facebook co-founder Dustin Moskovitz and an undersecretary in the U.S. State Department, was billed as a chance for young activists from around the world to discuss using the Internet to effect social change.

Ms. Scobey says the activist was happy with the summit, where dissidents in other countries gave him suggestions on how April 6 members could evade surveillance from Egyptian spies; others also invited him to visit and speak at protests in support of Egyptian democracy.

there's more in the telegraph:

Regarding info on those human rights abuses this activist gave to the US:

The disclosures, contained in previously secret US diplomatic dispatches released by the WikiLeaks website, show American officials pressed the Egyptian government to release other dissidents who had been detained by the police.

It's weird how you malign the work of a leading Egyptian freedom fighter, calling him an informant.

You're quite the psychotic bastard fairLoughner. You've thrown this guy under the bus based on nothing. This poor bastard's now sitting in an Egyptian jail while getting  maligned by a dick American blogger stuck in his rigid preconceived notions and ideology.  

You.

off da charts....


[ Parent ]
Not psychotic. Closer to stupid. Psychosis requires some intelligence. (3.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
And didn't this information come from the Manning Dump? (0.00 / 0)
The pffunny thing about these dumps is that they portray the US Govt as quite a bit less evil than the childish imaginations of some of those among us try to lead us to believe.

Can't wait for Julian to find his Iranian Manning. Although that would require a lot of courage, given that Iran doesn't allow for much free expression of dissent.

Notice that they've cranked up the guillotine too lately. Think its a coincidence to the recent uprisings in nearby countries? Or is it a preventive measure, a warning to the people, who are getting used to the end of subsidies for food and oil and must now get by in an stagflationary economy with even less income?

The 19 January executions of 10 drug trafficking suspects brings total number of executions to an alarming 97 in one month (19 December to 19 January), a trend that continues despite the questions and skepticism surrounding several of the political and drug-related executions. The Iranian Judiciary has reported of the upcoming executions of several drug-crimes suspects in various provinces over the coming days.

Statistics pertaining to the recent executions are taken from official sources. On 19 December alone, 22 executions took place in Iran. The executions of 10 suspects inside Mashad's Vakilabad Prison are not included in the Iranian Judiciary's statistics, but the International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran published the number based on reports from reliable local sources. Though the statistics provided by the Iranian Judiciary demonstrate a glaring increase in the number of executions in Iran, the International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran believes that the total number of executions inside the country's various prisons is not reported completely.

During the past several months, the Campaign has reported frequent executions inside Mashad's Vakilabad Prison, a subject about which the Islamic Republic of Iran authorities refuse to provide any explanation. Other sources have also reported of executions of drug-crimes suspects inside other prisons, such as the Birjand Prison, and the Campaign will publish the detailed information it.

http://www.iranian.com/main/ne...

Its a good thing Failroughner isn't opposed to the death penalty, eh,  or he might be forced to pull his moral skivvies out of his idealist buttcrack one more time.

 

[ Parent ]
in re: nearby countries (5.00 / 1)
Kuwait handles the situation a bit differently

KUWAIT CITY - The parliament of the wealthy Gulf state of Kuwait on Wednesday unanimously passed legislation to grant cash and free food to Kuwaiti citizens totalling over $5 billion to mark national occasions.

The grants, made last week by Emir Sheikh Sabah al-Ahmad al-Sabah, stipulate paying 1,000 dinars ($3,580) to each Kuwaiti citizen plus free distribution of essential food items for 14 months.

The cash grant will be paid to 1.155 million Kuwaiti citizens on February 24 while distribution of food will start February 1 and last until March 31 next year. http://www.google.com/hostedne...



The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory
[ Parent ]
You can do that when you have more oil wells (4.00 / 1)
then people and camels combined.
[ Parent ]
hehe yeah (4.00 / 1)
but still, way to set an example.

in other news:

a prominent Bedouin smuggler in the Sinai peninsula told TIME that Bedouin are now in control of the two towns closest to the Gaza Strip, and that they planned to press on to attack the Suez Canal if Mubarak does not step down. He also said that police stations in the south Sinai would be attacked if Bedouin prisoners were not released. http://www.time.com/time/world...

I wonder if those are the prisoners who just "broke out" of their cells and are running about town.

also, nice profile piece in new leaked cable:
http://213.251.145.96/cable/20...

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

[ Parent ]
Scobey is coincidentally the name of a character in Durrell's masterpiece (4.00 / 1)
"Alexandria Quartet" which is about the internal social political religious strife of Egypt before during and after WWII from the perspective of the British Consular class. Lawrence Durrell also championed Henry Miller (although their styles couldn't be more dissimilar) during the time his books were banned in US and Britain.

The Scobey character was a retired Brit sailor who settled in Alexandria to pursue his passions for pederasty and transvestitism. After he dies he becomes beatified as El Scobe by the local Arab religionists. Scobey is comic relief in the novel, a vividly drawn Falstaffian type character.

Great set of novels, expertly written. Prose poetry. I know people don't read literature anymore but this one well worth the time and effort.

[ Parent ]
You can even join the discussion on Facebook (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
On the "Alliance of Youth Movement," a U.S. state dept production (5.00 / 1)

It should be obvious what the goals its corporate and U.S. govt sponsors have for such a 'movement' and its groups, but here's some background:

State department spokesman McCormack (Nov. 24, 2008): It's called the Alliance of Youth Movement.  It's a meeting that's going to be held in New York City from December 3rd to the 5th, and it's working with youth to help combat extremism and to use new trends in social networking, as well as the technical aspects of social networking, to help various groups come together to combat extremism.  And it's really part of - this is, I would say, part of an overall effort here at the State Department to really better use technology, better use various applications of those technology, including social networking and social media to better communicate with the rest of the world and to do our job.

http://www.america.gov/st/text...

Founders of AYM include Jared Cohen, former advisor to both Secretaries of State Condoleezza Rice and Hillary Clinton and now Director of Google Ideas at Google, Jason Liebman, CEO and co-founder of Howcast and Roman Tsunder, co-founder of Access 360 Media.

Speakers at the 2008 summit included actress Whoopi Goldberg, Facebook Co-Founder Dustin Moskovitz, The Obama Campaign's New Media Team, and then-current Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs of the United States James K. Glassman.

In March 2009 U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced and endorsed the Second Alliance for Youth Movements Summit, which was held October 14-16, 2009, in Mexico City . This Summit explored the role of technology in mobilizing young people working to end violence throughout Latin America and around the world. Young delegates, described by Secretary Clinton as "the vanguard of a rising generation of citizen activists,"[2] were joined by more than 15 private and public partners, including the world's leading technology companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

On the anti-FARC group that was the inspiration for the Alliance of Youth Movement:

Glassman's second example hints at thornier issues. "About a year ago, a young, unemployed computer technician in Colombia named Oscar Morales spontaneously started a Facebook group ... called One Million Voices Against the FARC," he recounted. The group "put 12 million people into the streets in a single day last February, in 190 cities around the world, just two months after it was set up, in protest against the FARC, a violent extremist group that had been terrorizing Colombia for more than 40 years. A few months ago, after I visited Oscar in Bogota, we had put together a partnership with such firms as Google, Facebook, AT&T, MTV and Howcast, and convened a conference for representatives from groups like Oscar's. ... Two dozen youth empowerment groups were represented at the meeting of what is now called the Alliance of Youth Movements. ... Nearly all of these groups were foreign, but we wanted American organizations to attend, too, and we invited some. But did we violate the letter or the intent of Smith-Mundt?"

Civil society groups play an important role in healthy democracies, organizing and educating citizens, and often serving as independent critics of their governments. When the U.S. government supports civil society groups in other countries, it can undermine the groups' perceived integrity and effectiveness, as Iranian dissidents have warned. Moreover, it can complicate efforts to achieve U.S. policy goals, by entangling those efforts in other countries' domestic politics.

In the case of Colombia, the FARC, while indeed "a violent extremist group," is one of three actors responsible for "violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes and crimes against humanity," according to Amnesty International. The United States isn't likely to promote groups condemning the other violent actors: the Colombian security forces and army-backed paramilitaries. Colombian president Alvaro Uribe is a strong U.S. ally, despite his poor human rights record and his political allies' paramilitary ties. During his last week in office, George Bush honored Uribe with the Presidential Medal of Freedom, leading international human rights groups to say the award "only further tarnishes the Bush administration's own reputation on human rights issues in the region."

The Colombia example illustrates a frequent dilemma in public diplomacy work: how to craft and communicate strategic, pleasing messages for international audiences, when U.S. foreign policy is well understood and widely condemned overseas. ... Left unmentioned was the simple but perhaps inconvenient truth that a more just foreign policy would be easier to explain, to international and domestic audiences alike.

http://www.counterpunch.org/fa...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Also useful: (5.00 / 1)
The entire article is excellent, but the footnote on the founder of 'Million Voices Against FARC' (the inspiration for the state dept sponsored conference that the Egyptian informant/activist attended) was great (emphasis added):

At a conference called "Cyber Dissidents: Global Successes and Challenges" in April 2010,48 presenters attended from a number of countries where telecom + apps have been used to circumvent government censorship and repression.  Non-U.S. speakers were featured from opposition movements in Iran, Syria, China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela.49  Evidently, whereas regimes that the United States targets for destabilization produce "cyber dissidents" of interest to U.S. conference organizers,50 the conference managed to miss voices of opposition from any country where repressive regimes are supported by the United States (Honduras included).

48. See the website for the Conference on Cyber Dissidents: Global Successes and Challenges, George W. Bush Presidential Center, April 19, 2010.

49.  See "Speaker Biographies," George W. Bush Presidential Center, April 19, 2010.

50. In keeping with this pattern, the "Cyber Dissidents" conference also invited Oscar Morales Guevara, the founder of One Million Voices Against FARC -- a Facebook group that, like official U.S. policy, supports the regime in Colombia, while propagating worldwide opposition to the main rebel force that opposes it.

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.or...

Also, poorly translated, is more on the Bush Center conference last April. Note the countries focused on and the heavy presence of intelligence community and State department representatives:

Bush Institute convenes meeting to coordinate cyberwar against Venezuela, Cuba, Iran and Russia
April 8, 2010

The meeting, to be held that day in Dallas, Texas, will be attended by Rodrigo Diamanti (of Future Venezuela), Arash Kamangar (Iran), Oleg Kozlovsky (Russia), Ernesto Hernandez Busto, (Cuba; Busto lives in Barcelona and is known in the Cuban network as "Bird Stiff"), Isaac Mao (China), and Ahed Alhendi (Syria).

Also present will be members of the U.S. government and other organizations involved in the intelligence community in Washington, such as Jeffrey Gedmin, president of Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty, a project of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) created during the Cold War to fight against communism in Europe, Daniel Baer, Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, Peter Ackerman, founder of the International Center for Nonviolent Conflict (ICNC), an entity involved in so-called "color revolutions" in Eastern Europe, Oscar Morales Guevara, founder of the movement "a million voices against FARC" and promoting a movement against President Chávez through Facebook, Jennifer Windsor, executive director of Freedom House, and other representatives of Freedom House, the State Department and the George W. Bush Institute.

http://www.cubadebate.cu/notic...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
so your point is (0.00 / 0)
what exactly? it's too fuckin tedious to go through all this shite.

All eye know is Loughner, that you use US capitalist invented tools to communicate. You pay these US corporations, which you claim to despise, money to use these tools, so why shouldn't everyone else in the world use them how they see fit?

Of curse the Eyptians have used US invented tools to organize and oust Mubarak. Its the only reason its working. You still call the dude who played a huge role in organizing the uprising an informant. That's pretty hilarious.

Tunisians, of curse, are using these US capitalist tools.

LJ's using them.

So what's your point? That US corporations want to expand their marketplace? duh. That the US gov't controls exactly how these tools are used by everyone everywhere? That's insane. That the US has goals to use these tools against extremism? Sounds OK to me. Extremists like al qaeda and the  Iranian gov't., use these US invented tools to spread their messages.

Human beings are warring animals buddy. The internets a battle zone for hearts and minds too. Stuxnet's an example of the new cyber warfare that's coming.

So again I ask what's your point? You should be allowed to use capitalist tools, but not everybody else? You should be allowed to earn a living under a capitalist system, but not everybody else who wants to? You should be allowed to voice dissent but not everybody else who wants to?

I mean seriously, what are you, a fuckin hippie? Do you believe that the actors whom you support are pure? What do you believe? If only the US would pull back from everywhere then only forces for good will fill the voids? I think that's what you believe.

The US would pull back quite a bit from the ME if you would stop your capitalist gas guzzling and oil using habits, that's for certain buddy. But you don't.

You support Iranian theocracy. That's a good force to you. Correct?  

[ Parent ]
WHATEVER U DO, DON'T READ THE LINKS! (3.00 / 2)
blah blah blah the internet is bad no good no bad no I mean good wait it's really only bad when we I mean they I mean we I mean they use it blah blah blah Iran will kill us all blah blah blah Loughner blah blah blah mad mullahs blah blah blah Fuxnet rules blah blah blah hick blah cubicle blah blah

[ Parent ]
haha!@ (3.00 / 1)
wow. That's like what, 3rd grade level response?

idiots on the net

LJ, please summarize the links for me. It's a cut and paste hack job. All Bluster.

Try and put a few thoughts together. It should take you all of a few minutes. I know you're agitated, meth'd out or wtf, but see if you can muster it.

TIA

[ Parent ]
That reads exactly like one of her serious comments. (0.00 / 0)
Except more intelligible.
[ Parent ]
There would be no "social media activism" (4.00 / 1)
in Egypt without the past decade of anti-US(anti-dictatorship) activist alliances, anyone remember the Kifaya("Enough") movement? Of course not, it was never discussed in Time Magazine or The NY Post or wherever conservative keyboard warriors like our Donkeynoom get their message.

Egypt has been organizing ever more intently since the second intifada. Of course there are loose coalitions, breaks, disagreements. Ass usual, the sectarianness of Egyptian society is overblown by US media. All you have to do is open your eyes to see it. The false sides being sloppily contructed by our media through these vignettes of "US-Friendly" Egyptian activists are for domestic consumption alone. Actually the "facebook" factor may be overblown, there was much old-school pamphleteering going on as well.

It's fake to even talk about this as much as we are when there are a hundred more important real things to talk about, wrt Egypt. Then again that's always the motive - divert discussion into an unwinnable, abstract, ahistorical debate. No one in Egypt will care very long about this guy just because he set up a facebook page, nor will he to be targeted by the mooslim bro'hood boogeyman(another US contrived image) for his naive collusion with US State Dept cointelpro.

To know the actors and the motivations behind these "benevolent organizations" of ours and still support them is (channeling DB) "Conservatism".

[ Parent ]
In your opinion LJ, (0.00 / 0)
is Ahmadinejad a contrived US boogeyman?

re; Muslim Brotherhood: Sure, any political group that has a religious name and spawned Hamas should be thought of as pure and benevolent right?

yeah. It's all media created. There's no precedent for Islamists ascending to power through uber violence in the region. Of curse Egypt has a big army so that might make it tougher for the MB in the short run, but with Iranian money and advice, assassinations bombings and bribes they have a chance to ascend to power, then subvert democracy.

BTW they've backed ElBaradei. No surprise there.

Link?

Actually the "facebook" factor may be overblown, there was much old-school pamphleteering going on as well.


[ Parent ]
pamphlets (0.00 / 0)
check

funny though that these pamphlets were being sent around by e-mail, (US capitalist tool) and are being photocopied ( US capitalist tool).

As you'll read, the creators of the pamphlet explicitly asked that the pamphlet not be distributed on Twitter or Facebook, only through email or other contacts. (for fear of Egyptian monitoring)

Of curse Facebook and Twitter (US capitalist tools) have been enormously useful to the protesters. If they think these protests havn't been infiltrated by Egyptian security who have no doubt gotten their hands on these pamphlets they are mistaken. But really they have no other recourse.

Ironically, these "secret" pamphlets are getting published on the net. (US capitalist tool)

http://www.google.com/search?s...

thanks for the link chickie

pff

haha!@

[ Parent ]
We're all US Capitalist Tools, even Roughner and LauraJohann. I'm not sure about Byron. I think he married well (3.00 / 1)
so that means he must have a capitalist tool.

[:o0

[ Parent ]
z (0.00 / 0)

The US has supported Mubarak because he's a conterweight to the Islamists and Iran. Plus, the US military enjoys priority access to the Suez canal.  

Egyptian Rabbit Hole Runs Very Deep (4.00 / 1)
I have serious doubts regarding some aspects of the current Egyptian revolt. Also, I know little enough about Mohammed el-Baradei to have questions about him. While it's clear that his reports were very disfavored by the hawks who want an Iran War, it should be remembered that combined US intelligence services have issued similar reports. Probably because they know that such a war would cost too much in many ways, might last indefinitely, and turn Iraq into a nightmare.

My guess is that the draconian repression of Hosni Mubarak's government, combined with economic decline and current global food shortages are at least part of the motivation for the uprising.

Note that the revolt began in earnest on Jan. 25, 2011, but Webster Tarpley had this to say nine days earlier on January 16, 2011:

Tsunami of Coups; Libya, Egypt, Syria, Algeria, Jordan, Italy All Targeted; US-UK Want New Puppets to Play Against Iran, China, Russia -

- Obama Retainers Cass Sunstein, Samantha Power, Robert Malley, International Crisis Group Implicated in Destabilizations

Webster G. Tarpley
TARPLEY.net
January 16, 2011

Washington DC, January 16, 2011 - The US intelligence community is now in a manic fit of gloating over this weekend's successful overthrow of the Tunisian government of President Ben Ali. The State Department and the CIA, through media organs loyal to them, are mercilessly hyping the Tunisian putsch of the last few days as the prototype of a new second generation of color revolutions, postmodern coups, and US-inspired people power destabilizations. At Foggy Bottom and Langley, feverish plans are being made for a veritable Mediterranean tsunami designed to topple most existing governments in the Arab world, and well beyond. The imperialist planners now imagine that they can expect to overthrow or weaken the governments of Libya, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Algeria, Yemen, and perhaps others, while the CIA's ongoing efforts to remove Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi (because of his friendship with Putin and support for the Southstream pipeline) make this not just an Arab, but rather a pan-Mediterranean, orgy of destabilization.

Hmm...

Does Blues work for Lyndon LaRouche? (4.00 / 1)
Or does he post for free? That's the kind of question that's infinitely more interesting than his occasionally, entertaining meltdowns or hamming it up with hard to believe insights into his past.

By the way, this is one of the most stupid blogs on the internet. It is only surpassed in idiocy by Matty Jack's fake rebel schtick. Rich boy does drugs and juvie hall after growing up rich and pampered on Long Island. Now he talks of popping off police. Fucking loser mentaL case. Even Denali's tired of that politics on pcp schtick. You all suck.  

[ Parent ]
La Rouche fired him for too much personal internet use at work. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
I wrote what I wrote.... (4.00 / 1)
because Webster Tarpley can be directly tied to LaDouche. You probably knew that.
[ Parent ]
I did not know that. Thanks for the info. (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
I Tried To Find "Tarpley" At The Two Links From suckrates - Nothing (3.00 / 2)
So Tarpley cannot be "tied" To "LaRouche."

But what about the Dalai Lama???

[ Parent ]
Dumbasses (4.00 / 1)
I see donkeytale rated your post excellent. He'll probably change it once he realises he looks like an idiot. Googling Tarpley with Larouche, the first result will tell you, "In 1986 Tarpley attempted to run on Lyndon LaRouche's U.S. Labor Party platform." This is an example why colleges have prerequisites. Know-it-alls like you and donkeytale are a lag on higher powered thinking.  
[ Parent ]
I rated it excellent for reasons unrelated to LaRouche. Remember, I pinned LaRouche on Blues first didnt I?. (0.00 / 0)
Maybe you did. I'm keeping score these days. Failroughner demands it. So far, I'm shellacking Failroughner. I might as well use up some excess energy by slapping you around a little too, since you enjoy it so much.

College graduates tend to follow narrowly-structured thinking processes that limit their creative potential while reinforcing their reactionary tendency to suck up to demagogic leaders, blog operators and anybody else they can kneel before, shamelessly.

Invariably, this leads college graduates into a state of unresolvable psycho-sexual tension that can manifest itself in any number of bizarre personality disorders: Bondage Fetish, Paid Fake, Blog Troll, Harper Valley Hypocrite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

(Her mama socked it to the Harper Valley TPA)(Haha)

 

[ Parent ]
Who Really Gives A Shit About "LaRouche"? (0.00 / 0)
I never pay attention to movement leaders. They are not to be taken seriously. I always assume any group of than six to twelve will be subverted.

Since I don't pay much attention to the "leaders" of things, I don't really know much about LaRouche. He strikes me as a rich, somewhat nutty egomaniac who funds his own movement, yet makes some good points. But I don't know much of anything about him, and don't really care at all.

I say we should all think for ourselves, form small groups, and push in the direction that seems appropriate.

[ Parent ]
Pay no attention to that funny little man with the Chaplin mustache (0.00 / 0)
or that little goofball who resembles Gilligan or his billionaire boss holed up inside the Mosque guarding the loot.

And pay no attention to this either:

"The convict, a member of an international drug gang, smuggled cocaine to Iran using her Dutch connections and had twice shipped and distributed cocaine inside the country," it said.

Iran witnessed widespread anti-government protests in 2009

During a search of her house, authorities found 450 grams of cocaine and 420 grams of opium, the prosecutor's office said, adding that investigations revealed she had sold 150 grams of cocaine in Iran.

"The revolutionary court sentenced her to death for possessing 450 grams of cocaine and participating in the selling of 150 grams of cocaine," it said.

Netherlands was refused access

Bahrami was also accused of belonging to the People's Mujahedin of Iran (PMOI), classified as a terrorist organization responsible for killing several Iranian officials in the last 30 years.

Two members of the group were hanged earlier this week in Tehran for their involvement in protests in 2009.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/arti...

[ Parent ]
He Ran On A Party In New York Associated With LaRouche - So? (4.00 / 1)
I don't think he was ever part of the LaRouche cult-like operation. And I don't think he's "tied" to LaRouche. Many bad cults want money from their subjects, but I've never heard of LaRouche being accused of that. LaRouche has been accused of being anti-Jewish, but it's hard to tell if he is or not. He does deny most of the holocaust. (Which I simply count as ancient history.) I don't know if I agree with Tarpley on many issues or not. He's rather academic and reserved.

People claiming I am somehow "tied" with LaRouche is like me claiming that they are somehow "tied" with Soros (a situation that must be true in some cases).

[ Parent ]
I'd like to be tied to Mrs. Soros when Mr. Soros passes into that billionaire's club in the sky. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
"folderol" an excellent word that applies especially to this drivel masqurading as analysis (0.00 / 0)
Nothing you write is worthy of commentary. Nor is anything said by Obama, who is after all the POTUS, which means he has to remain statesmanlike circumspect as opposed to a hysterical blogger in chief that you would prefer. It is obvious that what he has spoken is not an endorsement of Mubarak and is a clear signal that the US is going to stand aside and let the chips fall. Will they try to influence the political accession? D'uh. Will those efforts work? No one can tell at this point.

I am reminded during this crisis how great it is that Hillary did not win the election. When she reminded the world that Mubarak was a faamily friend I LMAO.

Reports today from the NYT indicate that the Egyptian Military is largely not siding with Mubarak, himself a military man as have been all of Egypt's strongmen since at least Nasser. The action of the military not anybody's words will determine whether political succession or repression.

It is worth noting that the Military is conscripted there, which means it is more of a democratic institution than the US Military. The people there seem to support it so far and vice versa. Of course, if some units start wholesale slaughter of the people it will be most telling how the entirety of the Army, IE the conscripts, react.
And also how Obama would react. His warning to Mubarak not to resort to violent suppression were unambiguous.
At the moment it appears Mubarak's days are numbered. His only hope of survival would seem to be cancelling the upcoming elections, but he hopefully will not make it that long.

this is a good list (4.00 / 1)
to follow: http://twitter.com/#list/AntDe...


The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory
[ Parent ]
Thanks. Im sure its a symptom of my advanced age(s) showing (1.00 / 1)
But I can't get into twittering.

Facebooking neither. But I'll give it a whirl. I have to download software on my phone, or WTF. I hate downloading software, too.

I'm going outside now. Beautiful winter day here, like 70 something degrees expected.

[ Parent ]
U.S. kleptocracy response to 4 major econ crises of industrial era: good historical summary (0.00 / 0)
While the ruling class and its media very loudly does anything to sidetrack us, Hossein-Zadeh's paragraphs four and five below should be common knowledge among the working class. Its logical response to an enlightened understanding of history is obvious, and H-Z states that too.

The more crucial determinants of national economic policies are often submerged: the balance of social forces and the dominant economic interests that shape such policies from behind the scene. Stabilization, restructuring or regulatory policies are often subtle productss of the outcome of the class struggle.

Thus, when the balance of social forces is tilted in favor of the rich and powerful, crisis-management economic policies would be crafted at the expense of the working people and other grassroots. In other words, as long as the costly consequences of the brutal Neoliberal restructuring policies (in terms of job losses, economic insecurity, and environmental degradation) are tolerated, business and government leaders, Republican or Democrat, would not hesitate to put into effect draconian measures to restore conditions of capitalist profitability at the expense of the impoverishment of the public.

On the other hand, when crisis periods give rise to severe resistance from the people to cuts in social spending, such crisis-management policy measures could also benefit the public. A comparison/contrast of policy responses to major economic crises in the United States clearly supports this point. Economic historians have identified four major economic crises in the past 150 years or so:  The First Great Depression (1873-97), The Second Great Depression (1929-37), the long recession of 1973-83 (also known as the stagflation of the 1970s), and the current long recession that started in 2007-08.

Since there was no compelling grassroots pressure in response to either the First Great Depression of 1873-97 or the long recession of the 1970s, crisis management policies in both instances were decisively of the Neoliberal, supply-side type: suppression of trade unions and curtailment of wages and benefits; promotion of mergers, concentrated industries and big business; extensive deregulations and generous corporate welfare plans; in short, huge transfers of income from labor to capital. Likewise, a glaring lack of grassroots resistance in the face of the current long recession has allowed the ruling kleptocracy (both in the US and beyond) to adopt similarly brutal austerity policies that are gradually reviving financial/corporate profitability at the expense of the poor and working people.

By contrast, in response to the Great Depression of the 1930s workers and other popular forces achieved employment and income security as a result of a sustained pressure from "below."

The contrast between these two entirely different types of restructuring strategies shows that, as Mark Vorpahl, a union steward, recently put it, "Working people and the unemployed cannot rely on the politicians to get the change we need. We can only rely on our own collective strength. That is, we need to organize and mobilize as a united, massive, powerful force that cannot be ignored by those more intent to do Wall Street's bidding." Only the threat of revolution can force people-friendly reform on the ruling kleptocracy.

http://counterpunch.org/zadeh0...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

Egypt: I'm right so far, 'tale wrong (i.e., the usual story) (0.00 / 0)

Predictions are a courageous thing that put the quality of your analysis on the line. So I make them and 'tale doesn't. Anyway, here's more or less the latest:

Mubarak held talks with Vice President Omar Suleiman, whose appointment on Saturday has possibly set the scene for a transition in power, Defense Minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, Chief of Staff Sami al-Anan and other senior commanders. ...

"Hosni Mubarak, Omar Suleiman, both of you are agents of the Americans," shouted protesters, referring to the appointment of intelligence chief Suleiman as vice president, the first time Mubarak has appointed a deputy in 30 years of office.

It was the position Mubarak, a key U.S. ally, held before he become president and many saw the appointment as ending his son Gamal's long-predicted ambitions to take over and as an attempt to reshape the administration to placate reformists.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/201...

Is the plan to transition from the 82-year-old Mubarak (who doesn't have much time left in power anyway) to his chief of intelligence? Well, yes. Will that be the end result of this revolution? Quite possibly, but I hope not.

To tell the truth, I'm not sure there is enough ideological wisdom and street smarts among those at the head of the demonstrators. I also think that heavily funded U.S./neoliberal NGOs probably play a big role in how the demonstrators go about fighting the government and what they end up 'demanding'. Part of the U.S. 'whatever is necessary' effort to prevent a real, populist victory in Egypt.

An easy clue to whether there has been a real populist win: the new govt would have a policy look like Hamas and/or Hezbollah, and would be led by a tough, street smart guy like Nasrallah. Not gonna be allowed to happen.

On the other hand, hopefully this 'threat of revolution' brings some temporary relief from the horrific poverty foisted on Egypt by its corrupt rulers, the U.S., and the IMF. Or/and, something cheap like they repatriate Mubarak and his cronies' wealth out of the Swiss banks.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

You are spinning your own spin now? (4.00 / 1)
RIOTOUS!

Dude, your arent making any predictions. You are spinning the conventional wisdom of the MSM that you no doubt scoured this morning in search of a comeback from the pathetically contrived nonsense that you've been posting.

Talking doesn't make your dick grow any larger. Believe me, I've tried it. The only thing makes it bigger is wanking on it.

But if you insist on keeping score, sure.

Here is your actual prediction, which of course, is not what you are now spinning away from, weakly and transparently:

Still, my bet is on Mubarak holding onto power for awhile. The U.S. and Israel like him best, feel most secure with him in power. Later, maybe, a 'democratic' process heavily corrupted by U.S. cash provides Egypt a Obama moment.

So by predicting that Mubarak remains in US/Israeli puppet bondage for "awhile", you meant for how long exactly, anywhere from say the end of the weekend until.....what, the end of time?

I'm not arguing with your penetrating perception that the Egyptian political process is corrupt and heavily influenced by the US and of course, Israel.

Talk about playing the conventional wisdom. RIOTOUS!

I get it that you fervently long for fascist Iranian imperialism to replace mildly muslimic-secular US/British imperialism in the Middle East. The actual people in the streets have different ideas, goals, just like they did in 1979 Iran. You prefer they end up with the the Muslim Bros. in charge. Is that your real prediction? If so, that would qualify as a "prediction" unlike the soggy milktoast you have churned out to date.

And, here is my comment, which is so much more than a prediction but also contains a prediction that is more directly pointed and fixed in time than anything from you:

Reports today from the NYT indicate that the Egyptian Military is largely not siding with Mubarak, himself a military man as have been all of Egypt's strongmen since at least Nasser. The action of the military not anybody's words will determine whether political succession or repression.

It is worth noting that the Military is conscripted there, which means it is more of a democratic institution than the US Military. The people there seem to support it so far and vice versa. Of course, if some units start wholesale slaughter of the people it will be most telling how the entirety of the Army, IE the conscripts, react.

And also how Obama would react. His warning to Mubarak not to resort to violent suppression were unambiguous.
At the moment it appears Mubarak's days are numbered. His only hope of survival would seem to be cancelling the upcoming elections, but he hopefully will not make it that long.

You believe that the US is in control of events but we're not. Thats stunning disregard and condescendion of the people who are out risking their asses, especially the undetermined number that paid with their now dead asses. Besides, if the US was really in control then the current leaders in Iran would have been our hand-picked successors to the Shah, not the Ayatolloh and Ahmadickiejihad.

The US is reacting. Corrupt, decadent Western Demotardic politics is reaction, by definition. What they aren't doing, clearly, is supporting Mubarak whose only slim chance of survival requires some good old fashioned brutal suppressioning of the people, y'know, just like they practice in Iran. They are warning him not to invoke a military suppression. They are wanting an orderly, peaceful step down by Mubarak, an interim leader ( I assume they selected Suleiman and can live comfortably with El Baradei, too).

Good for you wanting to replace US imperialism with Iranian imperialism. That's the prediction you should be making if you really wish to lengthen your dick size. The Iranian Revolution is working overtime in the kitchen these days, heating up a lot of their dissidents in old gas ovens. Or do they hang them there? Wonder why they are doing that now? You think they watch the News?

Your prediction as stated above is either flat wrong or possibly correct if you squint your eyes and tilt your head away from the logic of the words you stated. You can and will claim "victory" no matter the event that eventually transpires.

Great. We have a winner!

There's another winner born every minute.

[ Parent ]
So, in sum, you now agree with me. (4.00 / 1)
Except for, perhaps, the ElBaradei part:

They are wanting an orderly, peaceful step down by Mubarak, an interim leader ( I assume they selected Suleiman and can live comfortably with El Baradei, too).

Obviously Suleiman is acceptable, and would signal the demise of any realistic populist outcome to the revolt. I don't know whether Baradei is acceptable to the U.S./Israel, though.

Are the only alternatives Iranian or U.S./Israeli imperialism? How do you and the U.S. mainstream 'analysis' get so quickly and comfortably to those being the only choices?

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
You mean to say that you now agree with me, don't you? (4.00 / 1)
You are the one today changing his story to fit in with the facts.

Yesterday you said "Mubarak's not going anywhere for awhile because the US and Israel like him."

My story is consistent because it hasn't changed.

As for allowing for choices, what are the other choices that you envision? You emphatically favour the Iranian position yourself:

An easy clue to whether there has been a real populist win: the new govt would have a policy look like Hamas and/or Hezbollah, and would be led by a tough, street smart guy like Nasrallah. Not gonna be allowed to happen.

[ Parent ]
well (4.00 / 2)
You believe that the US is in control of events but we're not.

Pretty sure the US is controlling the military there.

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

[ Parent ]
Thanks for pointing out clearest signal of US intention to not support Mubarak: Mubarak calls out the Military (4.00 / 1)
and the Military doesn't counterattack the demonstration. They are following Obama's orders, aren't they? The military take pictures and fraternize, some offer support. The people are cheering the military, who roll tanks alongside the people confronting the state police in order to afford them some level of protection as the police rain bullets and tear gas.

I believe we have bought and paid for a large measure of control over the Egyptian Military for sure. Therefore, seeing that the Military are not reacting to violently suppress the rebellion says they are following orders from Obama to not violently suppress the rebellion.


[ Parent ]
yes (4.00 / 1)
it seems pretty obvious though nobody really seems to notice.

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory
[ Parent ]
So you agree "It's the U.S. vs. the Egyptian people (0.00 / 0)
(Mubarak's just our dictator)"? Through our control of another country's military, the U.S. controls Egypt. Yes, that's right. (It's called neo-colonialism, by the way.) Like Jon Alterman sez:

Egypt's government is not so much a Mubarak government as it is a military government," said Jon Alterman, director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington-based policy group. "Generals and retired generals control much of the government and much of the economy, and they would stand to lose a great deal if Mubarak were deposed."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...

The primary purpose of U.S. control of Egypt is protection of Israel. The 'need' to protect Israel continues, so a U.S.-controlled military-ruled Egypt continues.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Repeating nonsense doesn't make it correct, although you have been perseverating lately like Socrates on speed. (0.00 / 0)
There is a very high certainty that the govt replacing Mubarak will be less amenable to Israel. I believe the US Govt and Obama is pretty much aware of that fact. Thats why the US have been trying to get Mubarak to moderate for years, decades even. Its too late for him now.

The US Govt is not supporting Mubarak. With what influence the US Govt has, and its a lot less than your paranoid, conspiracy filled imagination religiously believes, they will certainly try to get as favourable a result as possible, consistent with Egypt becoming a more open and prosperous society. D'uh. If the Egyptians fall to an Isalmic revolution, like Iran, the US Govt won't like it (neither will most Egyptians appreciate it, just like most Iranians don't enjoy living in a fascist theocracy).

Egypt had a GDP of $469 billion in 2009 and the economy grew at a rate of roughly 6% in 2010.

The US definitely buys influence with its $1.5 billion in aid, but not so much as you religiously believe. Do the math. US aid to Egypt amounts to a measly .3% of GDP. Thats less than one pct, in case you lack basic math skills.


[ Parent ]
Yes, I'm sure there's been completely ineffectual 'trying'. (4.00 / 1)

Just like we 'tried' to get the Vietnamese govt to be nicer, and all the other regimes we've installed. Completely ineffectual 1 because the sociopaths we put into power know what the U.S. govt really wants and they give us that. Completely ineffectual 2 because there's never any money behind U.S. words.

Don't be "it's only $1.5 billion" stupid. There's an iceberg of cash and cronyism, the controlling heights of which are the military. The economy is ruled by military-connected assholes who are in power because they are willing to do what the U.S. and Israel demand of them. And so they are raking in an obscene chunk of that annual GNP, while 40% of Egypt lives on $2 a day or less. Here's a fun story for you:

Hussein Salem caught in Dubai with $500m
Salem is a partner with Israeli businessman Yosef Maiman in EMG, which supplies gas to Israel.
31 January 11 11:21, Amiram Barkat and Kobi Yeshayahou

Hussein Salem, an Egyptian partner of Israeli businessman Yosef Maiman in the East Mediterranean Gas Company (EMG), which has long term agreements to supply natural gas to Israel, has been caught in Dubai with $500 million in cash in his possession, according to agency reports this morning.

It was reported yesterday that Salem and his family had fled Egypt because of the turmoil in the country. Arab media report that Salem himself went to Dubai, while his family left for an unknown destination. Salem is considered close to the Egyptian regime, particularly to President Hosni Mubarak's son Gamal Mubarak, who has reportedly left Egypt for London.

Salem owns 28% of EMG, which has supplied gas to Israel since June 2008.

Salem is one of the most mysterious business people in Egypt, and as far as is known he has never been interviewed in the Western press. In Egypt I he is known as the owner of a hotel chain, and as the confidant of Mubarak and his family. His business tie with Maiman was formed when they were partners in the construction of a refinery in Alexandria at the end of the 1970s.

http://www.globes.co.il/servee...

Anyway, I think it's great that you agree with the headline of this diary, and that the only thing you seem to disagree with is the 'fantasy fairleft' you've constructed. You could give that a rest and tell us what you think Obama really wants to happen in Egypt; or, just predict what you think will happen over the coming weeks and months. It's fun and self-educational to see if your predictions stick or not. Write positively!

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
I haven't constructed a "fantasy failreft" at all (0.00 / 0)
I used your own words that you typed in support of a Hamas-like and Hezbollah-like strongman regime for Egypt....just as I have in the past used your own words of support for Islamic fascism, and even American fascism. Your own words I must assume represent the real failroughner, unless you are admitting now that your words are the "fantasy"...I "win" either way in that case.

RIOTOUS!

[ Parent ]
I didn't support that, so that's a great example of "fantasy fairleft" (0.00 / 0)

Here's the quote, which includes my prediction at the end:

An easy clue to whether there has been a real populist win: the new govt would have a policy look like Hamas and/or Hezbollah, and would be led by a tough, street smart guy like Nasrallah. Not gonna be allowed to happen.

I read elsewhere that 64% of Egyptians in a recent poll said they wanted a society ruled in compliance with shariah law or wtf. So, my comment is just common-sense real world analysis. It's obviously not support.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
This "recent" poll from 2007? (0.00 / 0)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108...

RIOTOUS!

Is it possible that there are as many various interpretations of what is meant by  "sharia law" as there are religious interpretations in the Muslim world? That means that the law will be as just or as brutal as the government which devises and enforces it.

You are relying on a very broadly worded, outdated poll from which to draw sweeping generalizations about a country of 80 million.

I doubt under the circumstances that the Egyptian people will want to adopt anything at all like the Iranian version of "sharia law". In fact, the Iranian people didn't choose it in 1979, either.

The Egyptian people, as with the Tunisians, on the streets are very similar demographically to the Iranian people who rebelled last year.

You are practicing more fantasy.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/...

 

[ Parent ]
Why do you still read mundane crap like that? (2.00 / 1)
oh lemme guess, you actually DON'T. Even this laziest analysis of an LA Times propaganda piece contradicts your own (CONSERVATIVE)"take".

...various ultra-conservatives are trying to portray the Wikileaks information as evidence that the Obama administration has engaged in a conspiratorial, anti-Mubarak covert operation. Instead, the April 6 and its allies are a genuine, grassroots resistance movement that has carefully cultivated ties to various parts of the anti-Mubarak spectrum.

Now filp-folp and tell us you really didn't insinuate anything of the sort.  

[ Parent ]
? (0.00 / 0)
I have no idea what you mean, as usual.

Contradicted what? Insinuated what?

Please be more specific so I can eviscerate whatever is your pathetic attempt at a logical argument.

You are much better as FailRoughner's silent rating accessory than you are at any kind of direct debate.

[ Parent ]
Debate, please... (2.00 / 1)
You don't debate. Why would Mr. "Palpate My Bitterness" want to debate? He just wants to be palpated.
[ Parent ]
Right. You have nothing (0.00 / 0)
as usual.
[ Parent ]
No this 2008 poll by Gallup (0.00 / 0)

Israelis who fear this scenario often refer to a 2008 Gallup poll which showed that 64 percent of Egyptians want Islamic law instituted in their country. Such a radical swing would almost certainly lead to a fracture in the Israel-Egypt peace accord.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/arti...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Sorry, you're right, it's the same 2007 poll (0.00 / 0)

Deutsche Welle was misleading on the year.

Have Egyptians massively rejected that kind of politics in recent years?  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
2010 poll: they hate the U.S. (0.00 / 0)
Nothing specifically on Islamic law, but the people of Egypt have definitely plummeted over the last 5 years in the "I [heart] USA" category:

... The favorability rating of the United States among Egyptians has fallen sharply, from 30 percent in 2006 to 17 percent last last year. More than four out of five Egyptians (82 percent) now rate the U.S. negatively, including nearly half (48 percent) who give the United States a "very unfavorable" rating.

Richard Wilkes, the Associate Director of the Pew Global Attitudes Project explains that despite Obama's marginally greater popularity, "many of the concerns that people had about American foreign policy and American power in the Bush years are still around." The 2010 survey finds, for example, perceptions that the U.S. acts unilaterally in world affairs -- 85 percent of Egyptians say the United States fails to take the interests of Egypt into account -- and nearly three out of four Egyptians (73 percent) oppose the "U.S.-led efforts to fight terrorism." Meanwhile, even more disapprove of Obama's handling of the situations in Afghanistan (81 percent), Iran (76 percent) and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (88 percent).

At the same time, the majority of Egyptians say they are very or somewhat concerned about "the rise of Islamic extremism" in their country (61 percent), express an unfavorable view of Al Qaeda (72 percent), have little or no confidence in Osama bin Laden (73 percent) and say suicide bombing is rarely or never justified to defend Islam (80 percent). "On these questions," Wilkes explains, "Egypt is pretty consistent with what we have seen in most of the other predominantly Muslim countries that we've surveyed."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Dude, the third paragraph explains perfectly why the US is "allowing" the revolution to go forward (0.00 / 0)
as if in your "fantasies" the all powerful US of A-holes and its incredibly competent political-fixers the CIA could stop it or subvert it, in any event.

Egypt has a large, sophisticated worldly population. They want political freedoms and they want an improved economy.

Relax, dude. Obama is letting this thing play out. Its not going down anything like you fantasize. The only possible bad result for the US is an Islamofascist takeover, which seems remote, and which the US won't be able to stop, although of course the Egyptian Army (of the people) will be able to stop.

He will try to do what he can to make sure political control ultimately resides with a moderate, market-friendly progressive government that reflects his values and wants to increase business opportunities for the US. Thats what Presidents do, dude.

And so will the leaders of China, Russia, Britain, France, Turkey and Iran try to make sure the next govt is beneficial for its own interests.

Thats how the world works, dude. And I hate to be the one to inform you that the way it works ain't changing anytime soon. In fact, these rebellions are likely to repeat all across the Middle East and I'm pretty sure the US Govt will be happy to see Democracy and economic freedom spread.

They just won't blog about it all day in the direst of terms like we do.

As for the rest of your poll, it pretty much tracks the entire world's view of the US govt, including that of most people in the US. We dont like our govt either, but we like Obama slightly more.

So what does that have to do with the price of tea in China Egypt?  

[ Parent ]
The 2nd paragraph sez why the revolution can't be allowed to succeed. (0.00 / 0)

Most reasonable people everywhere are against terrorism and al Qaeda (with the possible exception of the reasonable person DByron). Including, of course, Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. No one serious worries about a 'crazed Muslim terrorist regime' taking over in Egypt. That's little green footballs, noom and, sadly, 'tale territory.

However, serious and exceptionally powerful and wealthy elites defending U.S./Israeli interests, and Saudi Arabian interests too, for that matter, worry about an Egyptian regime representing this, especially the last (88%) part:

nearly three out of four Egyptians (73 percent) oppose the "U.S.-led efforts to fight terrorism." Meanwhile, even more disapprove of Obama's handling of the situations in Afghanistan (81 percent), Iran (76 percent) and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (88 percent).



For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
If that was truly the case, that the US is terrified of regime change in Egypt (0.00 / 0)
they wouldn't allow it to occur. Instead, Obama is quietly showing Mubarak to the door, against Israel's wishes, and without clearly knowing what will come next.

I've not even mentioned a 'crazed Muslim terrorist regime' taking over Egypt.

I simply noted recent Middle Eastern history, where another revolution against another American puppet act got hijacked by a fascist theocracy, much to the lasting detriment of its also hopefully idealistic people. The Iranian fascists aren't terrorists, and they aren't crazed. They have executed at least 97 people in a month simply for the crime of being leftist political dissidents and for showing "enmity against God." I have no problem at all being unequivocally against the brutal right-wing Iranian theocratic regime.

Why do you have a problem condemning their brutality?


[ Parent ]
Please name one abusive regime that Obama chastised or even showed real concern over (3.00 / 1)
Thinking he'd support democratic regime change in a meaningful way when we are inextricably tied to the opposite game throughout the region is laughable. But it's what you'll read in the news. So carrion.  
[ Parent ]
Haven't you been reading ? (0.00 / 0)
Your point is sorta halfway good in that the US has been tied to these regimes since forever.

However, diplomatic chastisement or encouragement mean very little. Nothing. The POTUS is not a flipping blogger, dude, much as you wish he was. Last I heard Obama was chastising Israel over their unwillingness to stop building settlements. And he for sure isn't making them happy with his walking the longtime US puppet Mubarak out the door in Egypt either.

Obama is presiding peacefully over the downfall of Tunisia and Egypt in very short order. And wow, our hero Julian helped!

Obama and Assange. Making herstory together. Its got all the elements of a good love story gay porn classic. Black on white. Greatness.

Obama will get historical credit as surely as Reagan got credited for the fall of the Iron Curtain, and this is a much much more difficult maneuver, politically.

Off topic, but you were a little Republican grrl in the 80s werent you? You loved Ronnie like a grandpa. I can tell. So did Failroughner.

[ Parent ]
Like i told noom earlier; (4.00 / 1)
Dream on dumbass!

That's all false.

And in the 80's I was in elementary school. Despite my parents new romance with Rush, I voted for Dukakis in my elementary school's mock election. I was also voted school student council prez that year, in the 6th grade - it was an organic movement which nominated me, and I had only been there for that year. That's how awesome I was in the 80's.

I'll try to dig up a pic for db.

[ Parent ]
On a realted note, (5.00 / 1)
I was visiting my mom when Reagan died and caught her crying at the tv funeral. She sobered up a bit when I called her out on it. She knew it was ridiculous and yet she couldn't help it. See this is what I have to deal with, you capitalist pig. You made my mother cry. And she was a proper pwoggie until teh mid 80's.
[ Parent ]
funny stuff (0.00 / 0)
my mom was a pwog all her life too. But she also turned on Reagan. She was also an old movie fan too. Always had the gossip mags working. That probably factored in.

My dad was even a stauncher pwog who despised both Reagan and Bush, a WWII vet and who was so against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars that he wrote letters to the editor into his 80s. Yet he had been pro-Vietnam war back in the day. It took him until my daughter was born for him to forgive my dodging the draft.

Never exhibited a racist bone in his body, in fact has lived his entire adult life in predominantly Mexican and black neighborhoods, but he couldn't bring himself to vote for Obama....I just he related better to crotchety old white man McCain. Hah, or maybe Byron convinced him.

Dad also is a lifelong Packer fan who turned on them with a vengeance when they refused to allow Brett Favre to come back after he retired.

He rooted for Minnesota to beat Green Bay I'll be giving him some crap about his treason this weekend when he's rooting for GB.

Bet on it.

[ Parent ]
What was it with Reagan? (3.00 / 1)
You know he started out in Hollywood playing soused 30's playboys and he was actually pretty hot, when he stayed in his place. I was actually astonished at his ease at playing those roles; of course as Stupiddy says, good acting is just being yourself. BUT...I'm sure our parents, aka our national meme billboard know him from his hokey later roles, and therein lies the rub.
[ Parent ]
Studio System and some poor career choices, my guess (4.00 / 1)
He turned down the lead in Casablanca, I believe.

Just think, if he'd starred in that movie there probably wouldn't be a government deficit, Fox News or a Rush Limabaugh today.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have watched Casablanca 6,753 times either.

[ Parent ]
Fucking Casablacka, most overrated movie of all time (0.00 / 0)
I only watched it for Lorre.
[ Parent ]
I even saw it once at the LA County Museum (0.00 / 0)
the grand finale of a week long Hal Wallis retrospective, or wtf with both Miss Bergman and Paul Henreid in attendance.

So there!

But I loves me sum Peter Lorre and some Claude Rains, too.

[ Parent ]
I loved her in Gaslight and Stromboli (0.00 / 0)
Hollywood hypocrisy + Bergman = meh. She shouldn't have even gone there in the first place, she was too pretty for the movies and the bullshit, like a classier Ava Gardner.

Woody Guthrie's song about her is hilarious and apt.

[ Parent ]
Ava Gardner. The only woman who could ruin Sinatra. (4.00 / 1)
"There's only ten pounds of Frank, but there's 110 pounds of cock," Ava Gardner once told a British diplomat at a social function.

[ Parent ]
She was really more into hot bullfighters tho... (3.00 / 1)
as any smart lady would be.
[ Parent ]
Maybe Sinatra modeled a bullfighter outfit for her, first (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
I've seen Woody's version a few dozen times, too (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Ugh... (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Diane Keaton and Woody Allen lying in bed after sex. (0.00 / 0)
K: That was incredible. How did you maintain such stamina?

A: I thought about yesterday's baseball game.

K: I wondered why you kept whispering "slide, Willie, slide!" into my ear.

[ Parent ]
Forgot the linky thingy (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
hilariously nonsensical comment (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
You make no prediction in that blockquote of yours (0.00 / 0)

Anyway, Mubarak continues to hold power. ... Still, the U.S. is of course open to replacing him with someone just as dedicated to and effective at protecting U.S./Israeli interests. That's a small set of street-smart sociopaths so, yes, I still think the U.S. would be most comfortable keeping Mubarak in power for awhile. And he does continues to hold power.

The demonstrators show weakness in saying "we'll turn on the militaty five days from now on Friday, if it still supports Mubarak." Presumably the military will wait till Friday, see what 'turn on the military' looks like, and either keep or replace Mubarak at that time.

By the way, what Obama says unambiguously for public consumption is meaningless compared to what his ministers say privately, and where they put their money ($1.3 to 1.5 billion every year of Mubarak's violence-and-torture-filled regime). You coulda learned that from reading more Wikileaks cables, but you decided not to.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Nothing here to respond to as usual (1.50 / 2)
Your good points merely repeating points that I've already made.

Your call for "populism" in the form of a fundamentalist, Iranian backed regime is all you are saying thats noteworthy, as always. You back another "populist" right-wing and fascist regime.

Duly noted.

And no, I didn't need to read Wikileaks to learn what I already knew.

RIOTOUS!

[ Parent ]
bwhahahahahaha! (4.00 / 1)
To tell the truth, I'm not sure there is enough ideological wisdom and street smarts among those at the head of the demonstrators.

The King of street smarts, fairLoughner, the dude who has worked his way all the way up to cubicle dweller is making judgements on the street smarts of people on the verge of ousting a dictator.

--

Yeah that's what these freedom wanting people should aspire to, a gov't like Hamas and Hezbollah! Repressive, violent, imperialist, media controlled, corrupt and fascist!

bwhahahahahahahaha!!!

--

where were you with this back then Loughner?

On the other hand, hopefully this 'threat of revolution' brings some temporary relief from the horrific poverty foisted on Iran by its corrupt rulers....something cheap like they repatriate the Ayatollahs and his cronies' wealth out of the Swiss banks.  


[ Parent ]
Egypt has horrific poverty, (0.00 / 0)

Iran doesn't, and so Iran's poor and working class did not revolt, but by and large supported the current regime. Upper middle-class, U.S.-coopted twittering 'post-ideological' college students were at the forefront of counter-revolution in Iran. If Iran ever has a true revolution led by its working class and working poor, the U.S. will oppose it. Duh-oh-ieee.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
the difference is neglgible (0.00 / 0)
In both nations, the share of the population that lives in poverty is high: 50 percent in Egypt, 30-40 percent in Iran. The vast armies of the unemployed youth thus play important roles as citizens strive for political systems responsive to the needs of the people. Egypt's demonstrations appear to be driven by the poor. In Iran, on the other hand, the regime has long succeeded in co-opting the poor. The elimination of subsidies, however, whose severest shock waves are expected to arrive this spring and summer, may change that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...

Unfortunately the Islamist gov't in Iran has brainwashed the poor with religious rhetoric, xenophobia, and illuisons of an Islamic Revolution set on conquering the region. It's fascist mind control, plain and simple. Plus they dole out a few crumbs.

As to your description of Iranians on the front lines and all the rest of your bluster and claptrap, its simply silly.....and hilarious.

Of curse you insisted Ajad won the election when even uber leftist ahole Juan Cole said he lost and provided data to back it up. So whether or not a majority of the poor supported the freedom movement isn't the issue, a majority of the populace did. That's the bottom line.

Of curse Iran is nervous about the outcome in Egypt. If democracy prevails the reverberations could reach Tehran. Publically Iran supports the revolution, hoping for an Islamic ascendance, privately they are worried.


[ Parent ]
Wow that quote is zackly what I said. But I'll add some details. (0.00 / 0)

So a far smaller percentage is impoverished in Iran. And there's horrific poverty and plain poverty. IMHO only an idiot thinks Iranian poverty is worse than Egypt's horrific poverty. Iran's per capita income is twice Egypt's, after all. And I think it's reasonably clear Egypt's wealthy have kept a larger percentage of the GNP for themselves than have the mullahs of Iran.

Iran: $11,470 per capita in PPP dollars, current prices - 2009

http://www.google.com/url?url=...

Egypt: $5,680 per capita in PPP dollars, current prices - 2009

http://www.google.com/url?url=...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Is it clear that there is better income distribution in Iran than Egypt? And does it matter when Iran's population is unhappy and growing unhappier (not to mention more repressed) by each year? (4.00 / 1)
"Oil" is the only real difference between these two economies. Oil provides a tremendous amount of wealth for Iran, and yet employs very few people relative to the income it generates. In fact, take oil out of the equation and the Iranian economy is horrible, one of the worst in the world. The inability of the regime to reinvest its state controlled oil wealth to further develop Iran into even a second rate economic power but instead diverts huge sums into the hands of the religious "authorities," is a large part of the dissidence that has led to the Iranian Govt's brutal and deadly suppression of the middle class during the last few years.

However, the ending of teh food and oil subsidies, coupled with the ever high unemployment rates and growing inflation (as prices increase) should lead to a sustained and growing demand for Iranian rope in the near term.  

[ Parent ]
Yes, it's clear to a reasonable person. (0.00 / 0)

And, waiting, on evidence for your various contentions about Iran: unhappier each year, for instance. Huh? More repressed each year? Evidence, like an opinion poll?

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
good one (0.00 / 0)
And I think it's reasonably clear Egypt's wealthy have kept a larger percentage of the GNP for themselves than have the mullahs of Iran.

seriously dude? more Chicago bluster? link?

There are many mega billionaire Ayatollahs, the Rev Guard takes a share off the top. But of curse Iran makes way more money from oil sales than Egypt. They are near the top, Egypt not even on the radar. So that's the only reason Iran has less poverty.

Of curse, a lot of the oil money Iran makes also goes to a huge security apparatus, nuclear weapons programs, the military, weapons research, black ops abroad (Hezbollah, Hamas, Taliban, Shia Iraqis, Shia in Saudi Arabia, etc).

So seriously both Iran and Egypt suck. You choose to support the mullahs and AJad because, like you, they're anti-American. It's that simple.


[ Parent ]
And on topic, (0.00 / 0)

you agree Iran's poverty is very likely less 'horrific' than Egypt's? Because, as I showed, Iran is twice as wealthy? Just like poverty in the U.S. is likely much less 'horrific' than poverty in Egypt, cuz the U.S. is much wealthier?

Or is it the usual: concede nothing; when you lose another argument change the subject.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
per capita doesn't mean shit when (4.00 / 1)
talking about the poor.

my link:

In both nations, the share of the population that lives in poverty is high: 50 percent in Egypt, 30-40 percent in Iran.

The poverty level should be much lower in Iran what it is in Egypt, but it's near 40 percent, compared to 50 percent for Egypt. That's the telling statistic.

This means that the Iranian elite is stealing much more off the top. What is the cutoff poverty level suitable for you to get behind a revolution? You are judging iran's poverty level to be slightly better than Egypt's, yet Iran's is still horrific. And doubly horrific when total revenues are added up from oil money.

You say you won an argument that Egypt's poverty level is worse, but that was never the argument to begin with: Who's is worse? The argument was that Iran's poverty level is horrific. And it is.

where were you with this back then Loughner?

   On the other hand, hopefully this 'threat of revolution' brings some temporary relief from the horrific poverty foisted on Iran by its corrupt rulers....something cheap like they repatriate the Ayatollahs and his cronies' wealth out of the Swiss banks.  

+)

This doesn't even take into account the human rights record of Iran, which is abysmal. Not to mention gov't controlled industry, nothing innovated, and no opportunities for talented people - which is why they have a brain drain problem.

Sufficient grounds for a revolution for any clear thinking individual. But not to you. Why?

Because they're anti-American.


[ Parent ]
Useful links, if you guys want em (4.00 / 2)
Looks like the shiite will hit the fan by Friday (0.00 / 0)
In a statement to Al-Masry Al-Youm, an independent Egyptian newspaper, protesters announced that they were giving Egypt's military until Thursday of this week to take their side or be considered enemies of the uprising. The newspaper reported on Monday:

Tahrir Square protesters say they plan to march Friday to the presidential palace in Heliopolis unless the army makes its stance clear. Youth-led groups issued a statement calling for all Egyptians to march on the palace, the People's Assembly and the television building, in what they are calling the "Friday of Departure."

They say the army must choose which side they are on: That of the people, or the regime.

"We the people and the youth of Egypt demand that our brothers in the national armed forces clearly define their stance by either lining up with the real legitimacy provided by millions of Egyptians on strike on the streets, or standing in the camp of the regime that has killed our people, terrorized them and stole from them," read the statement.

The protesters say the army has until Thursday morning to make its position clear. A lack of response will be interpreted as support for Egypt's ruling regime. The march will commence after Friday Muslim prayers and Christian services, according to the statement.

Meanwhile, the liberal Democratic Front Party is expected to release a statement later on Monday calling on the military not to take part in cracking down on protesters.

"We believe that the president is trying to involve the army in a confrontation with the people," Ibrahim Nawar, official spokesman for the party, told Al-Masry Al-Youm. "In our statement we will remind the army that it is the shield of the people."

Clearly, the people are feeling saucy. The seniour military leadership is obviously standing beside Mubarak, who is one of them, but hopefully will be unable to stand behind him much longer, as the people form ever larger protests each day to confront the regime.

This looks like the week that will tell the story. Will the Military cave on Mubarak? Will the conscripts cave on the Military if ordered to violently suppress the revolt? Will people start going hungry?

And of course, the entire blogworld wants to know: what is failroughner's latest prediction morph for today?

latest on what has happened & what will happen (0.00 / 0)

All proceeding exactly in line with my predictions, see stories below. But do I get any respect around he'ah?!?

So let me get this straight: noom and donkey think a people's revolution is about to sweep the U.S. puppet military dictatorship out of power? How does that work, how is that even conceivable, when the U.S.'s number one priority in the region is "Israel uber alles"? Do you think the military, vastly enriched by U.S. bribery and control of the economy, will just give that up 'like that'? Do you think the $1.5 billion a year of U.S. taxpayer money would continue to flow to Egypt (mostly to its military) if the military allowed a real populist government to take power, one that would, for example, be sympathetic to the plight of the occupants of the open-air prison that is Gaza?

Egypt's Military Tightens Control Over Regime
By Alaa Shahine
Jan 31, 2011 9:20 AM CT

(Bloomberg) --  Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's appointment of a vice president for the first time in his 30- year-reign may herald the end of his rule. It probably won't end six decades of military control.

"Egypt's government is not so much a Mubarak government as it is a military government," said Jon Alterman, director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington-based policy group. "Generals and retired generals control much of the government and much of the economy, and they would stand to lose a great deal if Mubarak were deposed."

Mubarak, a former air force commander facing unprecedented protests demanding his ouster, named Omar Suleiman, a former army general and head of the intelligence services, as vice president. He also appointed Ahmed Shafik, a former air force commander, as prime minister, putting the top three government jobs in the hands of military men. He named Defense Minister Mohammed Hussein Tantawi as deputy premier.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...

Update on the why:

Israel urges world to curb criticism of Egypt's Mubarak
Jerusalem seeks to convince its allies that it is in the West's interest to maintain the stability of the Egyptian regime.
By Barak Ravid
Published 02:18 31.01.11

Israel called on the United States and a number of European countries over the weekend to curb their criticism of President Hosni Mubarak to preserve stability in the region.

Jerusalem seeks to convince its allies that it is in the West's interest to maintain the stability of the Egyptian regime. The diplomatic measures came after statements in Western capitals implying that the United States and European Union supported Mubarak's ouster. ...

"The peace between Israel and Egypt has lasted for more than three decades and our objective is to ensure that these relations will continue to exist," Netanyahu told his ministers. "We are closely monitoring events in Egypt and the region and are making efforts to preserve its security and stability."

http://www.haaretz.com/print-e...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

interesting (4.00 / 1)
Egyptian Forces in Sinai: Several reports indicate that Egyptian military forces have entered Sharm el-Sheikh, in Sinai. Rumors also say this is where Mubarak is at the moment.

The entrance of Egyptian military forces into Sinai is prohibited by the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty, to which the US is a guarantor. http://972mag.com/why-is-the-e...



The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

[ Parent ]
Chances are Israel (0.00 / 0)
was notified and gave a greenlight, given the circumstances....
[ Parent ]
As I previously noted (0.00 / 0)
the US has supported Mubarak as a counter weight to Iran and the Islamists.

The peace with Israel was in Egypt's interest seeing as how the Jews kicked their asses in every military encounter, all of which were started by bloodthirsty Arabs wanting to genocide the Jews. So Egypt wised up, knowing the Jews in the ME are too fuckin' badass to tangle with and signed a smart deal. Even way back when, pre US weaponry, the Jews kicked Arab ass. It's cause the Jews are brilliant, let's face it. The US is aligned with Israeli Jews because to become an enemy of the Jews is dangerous. Jews are cutting edge technology geniuses, and the US knows it. Plus Israel would just go elsewhere, forming an alliance with China.

So Egypt smartly got the Sinai back with it's oil fields and aid money in exchange for no more ass whoopings from the Jews.

To bad the Islamists then murdered Sadat or Egypt would be much further democratically along.

Gaza is an open air prison because Hamas is uber violent and radical. They murder Palestinians as well, which of curse no self respecting uber leftist gives a shit about. Pal on Pal violence is mostly ignored or sometimes cheered by uber leftists. Never condemned.

[ Parent ]
Dream on dumbass LOL (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
hmmm (0.00 / 0)
you know you can't hang with the Jews hickie chicke. Its why you resent them and their towering IQs so much.

+)

[ Parent ]
Chinese Govt take: (4.00 / 2)
The one paper that has been offering commentary is the Global Times, the tabloid daily owned by the Communist Party's main propaganda mouthpiece, People's Daily. In one editorial Sunday, headlined "Color revolutions will not bring about real democracy," the Global Times said the revolts sweeping the Middle East "are more controversial than those that happened in East Europe after the Cold War."

The paper said "real concerns exist about the potential rise of Islamic fundamentalism in case of a power vacuum in the Middle East."

The Global Times went even further on Monday, with another editorial today saying the revolts in the Middle East were more about Arabs and North Africans rejecting Western interference than embracing democracy.

"The clash between Western entanglement and indigenous identity triggered the demonstrations in Egypt and Tunisia," it said.


chinese are funny (3.00 / 1)
China censors coverage of Egypt protests on the web

A search for 'Egypt' on the Twitter-like service Sina brings up a message saying, 'According to relevant laws, regulations and policies, the search results are not shown.' http://www.csmonitor.com/Innov...



The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory
[ Parent ]
Yeah. ha Ha. (0.00 / 0)
The Chinese are as alarmed as are dictators worldwide, about the people of the Middle East having the audacity to revolt against the autocratic PTB.

In Iran, for instance, the dictators mullahs are currently letting the hangman's ropes do their talking for them.

And notice that they are said to be receiving assistance from the US puppet Maliki. I just can't believe that the evil Jew-Lover Obama would "allow" our Iraqi stooges to support the "populist" Iranian regime...surely, he has complete control of Iraqi politics if he has total control of Egypt?

Asked if those executed were politicians opposed to the regime, Dr Zahedi said: "In fact, every execution in Iran is political because through such conduct the Iranian regime wants to smother the popular anger in various Iranian cities after the subsides on numerous commodities were reduced." He added: "Form the beginning of this year, the Iranian regime began a wave of executions because the regime is in conflict with internal forces," and fears an unpredictable reaction because of the hike in prices and reduced subsides.

In another development, the opposition sources said that the Iranian authorities are collaborating with the Iraqi government to arrest dozens of MKO members of the estimated 3,500 members in the Ashraf Camp located near Baghdad. We have been unable to receive comment from the Iraqi authorities on this issue. The Iranian opposition sources claimed that they received information which they described as "reliable" to the effect that Iran requested Iraq to arrest 80 MKO members. They said that the request was discussed in Iran shortly before the new Iraqi government was formed by Nuri al-Maliki, but was only submitted directly in the past few days.

http://www.aawsat.com/english/...

http://www.payvand.com/news/11...


[ Parent ]
Iran revolution is No. 1 talk topic now among right-wingers. (0.00 / 0)

With all the yap, you'd almost think there was some 'reality-based' revolution going on over there, rather than in Egypt, where a U.S./Israel-dependent government is on very shaky ground.

Gucci/Armani-clothed revolutions are usually Soros/U.S.-sponsored counter-revolutions, btw.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
You're always wrong, it seems. The number one topic among right, left and center worldwide is.... Egypt (4.00 / 1)
Especially popular among the right-wing Govt in Iran, whose noticeable response to Middle East revolt against autocracy is to step up the hangings of dissidents, with 97 reported in a month since the beginning of Tunisian revolt. How many deaths in reality will never be known, unless Julian can stumble upon an Iranian Manning.

We can only hope that it's someone who doesn't mind a bit of neck burn.

But you can't blame the Ayatollah for being worried. After all Iran has economic conditions, govt/military corruption and wealth imbalances as bad or worse than Egypt.

And the Mullahs just ended the fuel and food subsidies, too, so the inflation rate is shooting through the roof!

(haha, pun intended).

Tough times call for tough measures, don't they, Imam Reft?

Too bad the Chinese who own Iran aren't prodding the Mullahs to allow their society to peacefully revolt and determine their political future, like the US, the owners of Egypt, is prodding the Egyptian Govt and Military to do.

I'll bet even you can guess you know why the Chinese aren't going there....

 

[ Parent ]
Little green footballs esque (0.00 / 0)
eom

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
1 to 20 of 7005 for egypt (0.00 / 0)

http://search.people.com.cn/rm...

Just sayin'. Anyway, I wouldn't immediately trust a U.S. mainstream source on that censorship contention.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
loaded buses arriving in Cairo for tomorrow's planned (4.00 / 1)
"million man march"

( here's another good feed, from an NY gobetween chick:
http://twitter.com/monaeltahawy  )

"Leave already! My arms are getting tired!" (4.00 / 1)

US-Owned Egyptian Military Sides with the People and the US-owned Mubarak Govt Blinks (0.00 / 0)
So the ultimatum that the rebels gave to the Military, out of "weakness" according to the brilliant deduction of Failroughner, forced the Military's hand in less than a day.

Mubarak is staying around for "awhile" because thats what the US/Israel want, eh, dude?

RIOTOUS!

Looks like Mubarak is now dancing to the people's tune. He'll stay around only if they agree, not the US/Israel.

Or is this is now another one of those Gucci Revolutions orchestrated entirely by the CIA?

And where are my props for stating the benefits of a military draft, which you still don't get, even after this?

You're out, Roughner. Three strikes rule in effect.

Declare fake "victory" and get back to work your cubicle. NOW!

[:o)

CAIRO - The political forces aligned against President Hosni Mubarak seemed to strengthen on Monday, when the Army said for the first time that it would not fire on the protesters who have convulsed Egypt for the last week. The announcement was followed shortly by the government's first offer to talk to the protest leaders.

The offer of negotiations on constitutional and legislative reforms was made by the new vice president, Omar Suleiman, who did not offer further details. But it seemed to represent an attempt to blunt the devastating effect of the Army's statement, which came as the Egyptian economy reeled and on the eve of what organizers hope will be the largest demonstrations yet - a "march of millions" and a general strike - on Tuesday.


Note the US-Owned Military Delivering Bossman Obama's Message to US Puppet Mubarak: (0.00 / 0)
It was not immediately clear who Mr. Suleiman addressed his offer to, or whether the opposition would accept. While the protesters have consistently demanded Mr. Mubarak's resignation above all else, they have lately indicated a willingness to discuss a unity government leading to elections. On Sunday, Egypt's powerful Muslim Brotherhood and the secular opposition said they had chosen a prominent government critic, Mohamed ElBaradei, to represent their side in possible negotiations with the Army over Mr. Mubarak's departure.

The Army's announcement - delivered on state TV with no elaboration by its official spokesman - declared that "freedom of expression through peaceful means is guaranteed to everybody," and promised to recognize the "legitimate demands" of the protesters.

While the carefully worded statement was seen by some as a veiled threat to use force against those who do not use peaceful means, an associate of Mr. Mubarak's said it should be taken at face value.

"The Army is not a puppet in the hands of anybody," including Mr. Mubarak, said Mahmoud Shokry, a retired diplomat and a friend of Mr. Suleiman. "The Army does not want to make any confrontation with the youth." He said the generals would "ask Mr. Mubarak to leave" before they would accept orders they think could lead to civil war or risk their credibility with the public.


[ Parent ]
It's a US/Israeli wet dream come true if Suleiman takes power. (0.00 / 0)


For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
Read below. You are a step behind, of course. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Hossam el-Hamalawy: he's there, good photos (4.00 / 1)
Follow him at http://www.arabawy.org/

FWIW, here's his latest quick statement to the world, from http://mrzine.monthlyreview.or...

Egypt: MSM on Baradei, Muslim Brotherhood, and the 6th of April
by Hossam el-Hamalawy

IT IS NOT TRUE WHAT MSM IS BROADCASTING ABOUT PROTESTERS CALLING ON BARADEI TO LEAD TRANSITIONAL GOVT !

WE DO NOT WANT THE ARMY !  THE ARMY HAS BEEN RULING SINCE 1952.  THEY R NOT NEUTRAL PLAYERS.

It is not true what some MSM outlets r broadcasting about the Muslim Brotherhood and the 6th of April leading the protests.  It's complete BS.

The Popular Committees hold the seeds for what direct democracy could look like in the future.  We need to focus on them instead of BARADEI !

Hossam el-Hamalawy is an Egyptian socialist, journalist, and photographer.  Visit his blog, www.arabawy.org. Follow Hossam el-Hamalawy at twitter.com/3arabawy.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

Of course, you were wrong about the US accepting El Baradei, too. STRIKE 4! (0.00 / 0)
RIOTOUS!

Reft: So, in sum, you now agree with me. (4.00 / 1)
Except for, perhaps, the ElBaradei part:

Tale: They are wanting an orderly, peaceful step down by Mubarak, an interim leader ( I assume they selected Suleiman and can live comfortably with El Baradei, too).

Reft: Obviously Suleiman is acceptable, and would signal the demise of any realistic populist outcome to the revolt. I don't know whether Baradei is acceptable to the U.S./Israel, though.

Here is your answer, Roughner:

Administration hopes are solidifying around the Egyptian dissident Mohamed ElBaradei, despite his difficult relationship with the US after he undermined Washington's claims that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when he was head of the IAEA and his criticism of Obama's failure to ask Mubarak to resign. But there remain concerns in Washington that ElBaradei may be used by the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's leading Islamist political party, to help topple Mubarak and then be pushed aside. ElBaradei has been mandated by opposition parties, including the Brotherhood, to talk to the army about forming a "national salvation government".

Tale's prediction = money.

Reft's "perhaps" and "I don't know whether, though" sort of prediction = FAIL.

[ Parent ]
Getting way ahead of yourself 'tale. (0.00 / 0)

It's best to be cautious. Even your quote indicates things are definitely in flux. Sometimes reporting represents a PR push or trial balloon by one faction or another within the U.S. govt. I think we agree that an authentic populist regime is unacceptable to the U.S. I don't know whether ElBaradei is 'authentic' or not, but he certainly can't take power on his own, and likely will have to 'co-rule' along with representatives of a significant section or two of authentic populist forces.

In much of what's going on this week, the neoconservative and Israel-subservient politicos seem to be temporarily and prudently taking a back seat. But they'll have their say in Washington Egypt policy too, sooner rather than later.

Stephen Grand, a Middle East expert at the Brookings Institution, said U.S. officials "seem to have in mind a managed transition that avoids the creation of a vacuum that extremist elements [fl: ooh, that scary bogey man again!] might exploit."

"This could mean the creation of a caretaker government that oversees the rewriting of the constitution and the holding of free and fair elections," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/201...

If the above takes place, during that managed process we'll see U.S./Israeli interests would have a much better chance than right now to assert firm control over the outcome. The elections aren't scheduled to take place till September.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
who are they? (0.00 / 0)
likely will have to 'co-rule' with a significant section or two of authentic populist forces

only one or two?

I know you're dying for the Muslim Brotherhood to take the reins, but are there any other populist forces in Egypt who you acknowledge Loughner?

[ Parent ]
Way ahead of you, you mean. (2.00 / 1)
"Its best to be cautious." Absolutely, now that your schtick has been exposed as thoroughgoing nonsense, yes, I agree. You should also try thinking first before regurging stale agit prop that has no bearing on this event. You just look deranged and/or flustered as events unfold in ways that you cannot comprehend through your narrowly false ideological perspective.

What is really funny here more than anything else is that you are continuously spewing the  conventional "Israel's needs control US Foreign Policy" propaganda drivel in blissful ignorance of the fact that Obama doesn't care as much as you anti-semitic fools like to fantasize about Israel's concerns regarding the rebellion in Egypt or much of anything else. Concerned? Yes. But his overriding concern? Nonsense.

The "US/Israel" aren't the major players in this game, your CIA puppet minstrel show paranoid conspiracy fantasies notwithstanding.

Of course, the US wants stability. They also know that Mubarak has to go for that to happen. They knew it before you did! They don't want an eventual fundamentalist regime like happened in Iran 1979. Of course. They want raised living standards and more political/economic fairness for the people. Of course.

The US is pushing Mubarak to the exit without clearly knowing what will happen next, even as Israel wishes to retain him because they fear what will happen next. Funny as shit that you refuse to acknowledge what is so obvious to anyone not so ideologically blinded as you.

All you see is CIA/Mossad puppet master conspiracies in play.

And a conspiracist can never be proven wrong! Not possible. See, because no matter what happens, its all part of the CIA/Mossad conspiracy.

RIOTOUS!


[ Parent ]
This shit is a lot of garbled nonsense, dude (0.00 / 0)
ElBaradei may be used by the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's leading Islamist political party, to help topple Mubarak and then be pushed aside. ElBaradei has been mandated by opposition parties, including the Brotherhood, to talk to the army about forming a "national salvation government".

Who writes this stuff? ("including the brotherhood", I mean come on! "Mandated"? Srsly?)

As to you being "right"(already!) about the US wanting El-Baradei; not a big leap of logic there. And it explicitly wont matter to the people what the US wants anyway.

[ Parent ]
I think its the Guardian. Blame the Brit MSM (0.00 / 0)
Funny that you of all people should complain about garbled nonsense. It reads mo' betta grammatically when you include the entire sentence.

RIOTOUS!

You always try to kill the messenger every time he brings you a message you dislike. You need some new schtick. Badly.

But then, you already know that much, at least.

[ Parent ]
Kill the messenger when the message is bs, yeah (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
"BS" means that you don't like it because it doesnt tailor to your misconceptions (0.00 / 0)
Not that its BS.

You have to show how something is BS in order for it to be considered BS.

Just saying it's BS is the real BS.

[ Parent ]
You're one to talk Mr. Time Magazine (0.00 / 0)
I'm sure you're pleased with Obama's new Press Sec. appt. as his BS credentials are FLAWLESS. Him 'n Obama I'm sure can "control" the moral universe, not just the Egyptian army!

Riotous!  

[ Parent ]
Who is his new press secretary? (0.00 / 0)
Who is his old one? I don't pay attention to press secretaries.
[ Parent ]
Yeah...right (0.00 / 0)
RIOTIOUOUOUS!
[ Parent ]
Oh, I see Laura already noticed him. (0.00 / 0)


For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep
[ Parent ]
real time tweet map: (0.00 / 0)
http://www.mibazaar.com/egypt....

Several million people protesting in EACH major Egyptian city.

And now Jordan's sacked and reshuffled their gov.  

Yes the shoes of authoritarianism are falling across the Middle East. Why, even your friends in Gaza are feeling some pressure (0.00 / 0)
Wonder why those fascist, bully boys tough, street smart leaders won't allow a little solidarity with the freedom loving peoples of Egypt who also hate the US/Israel?

Uh yeah, I know. Its a Mossad/CIA caper planted in the evil MSM. Gosh, why didn't I think of that?

Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip prevented Gazans from demonstrating in solidarity with protesters in Egypt, according to witnesses we talked to. Police arbitrarily arrested six women and threatened to arrest another 20 people who responded to a call on Facebook for a demonstration at the Park of the Unknown Soldier in Gaza City.

An eyewitness told Human Rights Watch that shortly after 2pm on 31 January, plainclothes detectives forced three women demonstrators into a civilian car and drove them away. Others who walked away from the planned demonstration were followed by a police detective on a motorcycle, who demanded that they turn over their ID cards and mobile phones. When they handed over their IDs but refused to surrender their phones, the detective called for support to arrest them, and the demonstrators fled, the witness said.


[ Parent ]
Hamas authorities? Who says? (4.00 / 1)
It could be coopted PA goons(or worse for all we know), but more likely it was a misinterpreted, but very prudent attempt to keep the calm and not push Israeli buttons. I'd imagine right about now Palestinians are weighing their options differently than the Egyptians, wouldn't you?  Bit of a difference between demonstrating in an open air prison which has been ruthlessly attacked before by its hostile military, and demonstrating in a large open country with a (so far)sympathetic military.

Either way your nasty little post acts as broad brush for the Gazans, as per usual. Arabs just can't be trusted to govern fairly now can they? Wait until the Rafah crossing opens again and then maybe whine about Hamas and their "authoritarianism" if they try to keep the Gaza side "secure"(which they won't).

(And the source remains in question - you're dreaming if you think that Israel is hands-off in Gaza. Leave it to you to scour the internet for proof that Hamas is quashing dissent in Gaza. I'm sure noom will be along shortly with the same "story".)  

[ Parent ]
Nobody is hands off of anyone, anywhere, ever. Not your guys either. (0.00 / 0)
I already foretold your usual apologia in the comment. Thanks for falling in again.

The CIA/Mossad/MSM conspiracy did it. Of course.

You are like my old grandma. Give her a shot of brandy and she would jump up and repeat the same old thing over and over and over again.

My friend.  

[ Parent ]
Right again righty! (3.00 / 1)
Gosh how is it, always being Right? I can only imagine.
[ Parent ]
It requires experience, perspective and a long life (2.00 / 1)
Hang on. You can still get there.

I wasn't there at your age either.

[ Parent ]
no (0.00 / 0)
eye've been following this story about "your people" chickie, still getting the shaft from Uncle Sam.

WASHINGTON - The federal government has begun notifying hundreds of thousands of Native Americans that they are eligible for money from a $3.4 billion class-action settlement Congress funded several weeks ago to resolve claims of trust mismanagement.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said Wednesday that Native Americans who qualify for payment should soon receive information through the mail about their legal rights. The department also has set up a website (www.IndianTrust.com) and toll-free number (1-800-961-6109), and plans "an extensive media campaign" using Native American print media, television and radio ads, and online advertising.

Formal notice is part of the settlement being supervised by the courts.

"The Obama administration is continuing to move forward on its agenda to honorably and responsibly address longstanding injustices in Indian Country," Salazar said.

Related
Court order on notification in Indian Trust Fund case

The Interior Department is encouraging people unsure if they are eligible for payment to visit the website or call the toll-free number.

Class members who get notification in the mail about the settlement and are receiving Individual Indian Money (IIM) account statements don't have to do anything to receive payment, according to the agency. People who believe they should be part of the settlement but don't get a notice in the mail or aren't receiving IIM account statements need to fill out a claim form as soon as possible. The forms are available on the Indian Trust website or by calling the toll-free number.

People who want to retain their right to sue the federal government over mismanagement claims covered by the settlement must exclude themselves from the settlement by April 20.

The Cobell settlement, named for lead plaintiff Elouise Cobell of the Blackfeet Tribe in Montana, calls for $1.5 billion to be paid out to at about 500,000 Indians to compensate them for the mismanagement of money the government collected - or was supposed to collect - on their behalf. The lawsuit originally claimed the Interior Department lost tens of billions of dollars generated from timber cutting, cattle grazing and mineral excavation on tribal lands the government holds in trust.

Another $1.9 billion will be used to buy up small parcels of reservation land held by multiple owners. The parcels are expensive to manage and don't generate much income. In addition, the agreement would create a committee to evaluate ongoing tribal trust issues, and establish a $60 million scholarship fund for Native American students.

Federal officials caution that eligible Native Americans shouldn't expect a payment anytime soon because it might take a while to certify claims and issue checks.

http://www.greatfallstribune.c...

So the US gov't doles out pennies on the dollar. More insult and injustice heaped on the Native people's of this land. Land stolen by you white devils!

fuck the white devil!

--

[ Parent ]
fuck you white devils (5.00 / 1)
In a nutshell, the feds lost or otherwise never paid hundreds of thousands of Indian plaintiffs the monies owed them on lands they owned but were "managed" by the government for their mineral rights (think: oil wells) and agricultural rights for more than 100 years. Cobell's forensic accountants estimated the government owed the Indians $176 billion.

Well, today, at long last, a settlement was reached with the Department of the Interior and the Department of the Treasury for a fraction of what Cobell believes the Indians were owed.

--

The settlement is believed to be the largest ever against the federal government and dwarfs the combined value of all judgments and settlements of all Indian cases since the founding of this nation. That's the good news.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/20...

the white devils (you aholes) have benfitted from the wholesale demolishing of the Native People's in America. Trillions of greenbacks have been stolen from the NA's. You fuckin pigmentless snout sucking lowlifes make me sick.

Shaman Noom

[ Parent ]
Turkey Flaps its Wings (0.00 / 0)
Egypt's key ally, Turkey has urged Mubarak to meet the popular demands for change. AP has this:

Prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan (left) said Mubarak should act immediately and prevent "exploiters, groups with dirty aims, (and) those sections that have dark designs over Egypt to take the initiative." He did not elaborate.

[does he mean the US/Israel or the fascist, bully boys authentic populists, or both?- Tale]

Erdogan also called for anti-government protesters to refrain from violence and protect the country's cultural heritage.

The Turkish leader was addressing members of his Islamic-oriented party in Parliament.
Erdogan urged Mubarak to "lend an ear to the people's cries and extremely human demands."


You see (4.00 / 1)
authentic populists as fascist bully boys; yeah, we got it the first hundred times but what's one more?
[ Parent ]
See above for your own redundancy (0.00 / 0)
Who are the authentic populists and what makes them authentic?
[ Parent ]
No one, obviously. (0.00 / 0)
At least according to your favorite news sources. Why look further?
[ Parent ]
Name them and show evidence of their authenticity. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
It's the U.S. vs. the Egyptian people (Mubarak's just our dictator) | 144 comments
Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?

Search




Advanced Search

Cliques ci-dessous
Penny
Land Destroyer
Lizzy Phelan
Arthur Silber
Mondoweiss
NarcoNews
uruknet
Glenn Greenwald
War Is Business
Lenin
3arabawy
Dissident Voice
Arabist
Francis L Holland
Angry Arab
Seymour Hersh
Left I
electronic intifada
WildWildLeft
The History Blog
Gallery Of The Absurd
reel newz
jewssansfrontieres
AntiWar
CounterPunch
Asia Times
World Socialist
Socialist Worker
Chris Jordan
John Pilger
In Gaza
Moon Of Alabama
Coteret
RT
Voltaire Net

Nothing here is endorsed by the admin, not even her own bullshit. And you'll be lucky if she's even watching yours.
Powered by: SoapBlox