Obama walks back more promises

by: DavidByron

Thu May 07, 2009 at 21:25:17 PM EDT

Shocking!

U.S. May Revive Guantánamo Military Courts

I love btw, the way the US elite media organs like to put that little accent on the "a" there. That's a real hat tip to the actual owners of Guantanamo bay. That says "thanks" in a way that deliberately infecting them with Swine Flu doesn't.

DavidByron :: Obama walks back more promises

So anyway back to the Obama three step.

First you condemn Bush for doing X.
Then you loudly say you're not going to do X.
Then you do X.

Step one.

during the presidential campaign Mr. Obama criticized the commissions, saying that "by any measure our system of trying detainees has been an enormous failure," and declaring that as president he would "reject the Military Commissions Act."

Step two.

When President Obama suspended Guantánamo cases after his inauguration on Jan. 20, many participants said the military commission system appeared dead.

Step three.

The Obama administration is moving toward reviving the military commission system for prosecuting Guantánamo detainees, which was a target of critics during the Bush administration, including Mr. Obama himself. ... Officials said the first public moves could come as soon as next week

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Obama walks back more promises | 20 comments

Of course this wouldn't be an issue (4.00 / 1)

if the commissions were not kangaroo courts. That's their whole purpose. But then as previously mentioned to Rachel Maddow's approval, the ordinary legal system is designed to do the same thing. If the commissions don't allow for plea bargaining by appointed-without-your-permission lawyers under threat of torture then they need something to get the job done so why not allow hearsay evidence and confessions from torture?

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

by: DavidByron @ Thu May 07, 2009 at 20:30:11 PM CDT

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Fascinating. (4.00 / 1)

A bit more:

in recent days a variety of officials involved in the deliberations say that after administration lawyers examined many of the cases, the mood shifted toward using military commissions to prosecute some detainees, perhaps including those charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks.
"The more they look at it," said one official, "the more commissions don't look as bad as they did on Jan. 20."

The Bush administration's commission system was criticized in part because it permitted evidence that would often be barred in federal court, like evidence obtained through coercive interrogations and hearsay.
The administration is likely to make it more difficult for prosecutors to admit hearsay, while not excluding it entirely, the lawyers said. The hearsay issue is central to many Guantánamo cases because they are based on intelligence reports and detainees may never be permitted to cross-examine the sources of those reports.

Kinder, gentler hearsay, perhaps?

by: vox humana @ Thu May 07, 2009 at 20:35:36 PM CDT

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I wonder if "Bo" Obama (4.00 / 1)

will turn out to be a cat...?

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

by: DavidByron @ Thu May 07, 2009 at 20:39:35 PM CDT

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Cue the political defenders (4.00 / 2)

At least he can walk!

by: Intermittent Bystander @ Thu May 07, 2009 at 23:17:38 PM CDT

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Cherry season again? (2.00 / 1)

The migrant labor is back.

Hi, David!

by: Ormond Otvos @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 00:16:49 AM CDT

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So... (0.00 / 0)

trials at Guantanamo are good?

by: vox humana @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 00:19:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Instead of thoughtless binary moralities, let's rank the various alternatives. (1.50 / 2)

Governance is rarely done successfully by ideologues.

Nuclear annihilation is a 10 Bad.

About a billion happy dancing sharing people with a varied but essentially sane culture worldwide is a 10 Good.

Factors include number of people involved, amount of physical and mental suffering, destruction of world ecology.

Ready? OK. I rank Guantanamo a .01 Bad.

by: Ormond Otvos @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 14:38:59 PM CDT

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Meaning... what? (3.00 / 1)

by: vox humana @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 19:48:09 PM CDT

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Are you a psychobot? Meaning what? Read the post. (0.00 / 0)

by: Ormond Otvos @ Sat May 09, 2009 at 16:20:07 PM CDT

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I read the post. (4.00 / 3)

I still have to ask: What is your point?

Are we ranking moral outrages? For the purpose of... what? Addressing them in rank order?

I happen to think that American executive powers of differing parties deciding to continue torture and endorse various standards of the rule of law is more than a ".01 bad."

Should we be limiting our diaries and discussions to your order of rankings? And as far as "thoughtless binary moralities:" what is your ranking for using strawmen in a discussion?

I'm the net nanny?

by: vox humana @ Sat May 09, 2009 at 19:30:31 PM CDT

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Willfully obtuse. (2.00 / 1)

You know exactly what I mean.

by: Ormond Otvos @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 00:11:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No. I. don't. (4.00 / 2)

You appear to be claiming that because there are other, greater, evils out there, we should not waste our time on justice for those in Guantanamo - at least... not right now. That issue is not as important as other worldly matters.

I reject that. Utterly. Now, please correct what I have misunderstood.

by: vox humana @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 00:25:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah, yes. Utter rejection. Absolut compassion. (0.00 / 0)

Yeah everybody. Every child a winner every day. With us or against us.

by: Ormond Otvos @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 11:56:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Compassion (0.00 / 0)

is seldom related to winning in my experience. That topic would be... changing the subject. I don't agree with every child a winner, as a matter of fact.

Guantanamo is related to "yay everybody" and "every child a winner every day"?

Honestly, Mr. O, I know you want me to be a proponent of your imaginary moral binary system, but you and I have conversed often enough and on enough topics that you should know better. Some of what you are saying I don't get, and the part I get I disagree with. That doesn't make me some "psychobot." That makes me a participant (or attempted participant) in a conversation.

by: vox humana @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 21:30:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're a morally confused/lost person (3.00 / 1)

Where the confusion originates, why don't you try to tell us? It's impossible to tell from the above gibberish, which is your problem as well as ours (those of us that want to help you find your way). Does it have something to do with 'religion is the root of evil'?

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

by: fairleft @ Sat May 09, 2009 at 18:51:29 PM CDT

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We are what we are, and we don't fit the world as we are. (0.00 / 0)

Nature bats last. I want to call the competitive game and go back to cooperation. I hope this is obscure enough for you.

I see where NNadir gets his attitude of scorn.

by: Ormond Otvos @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 11:58:46 AM CDT

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I sincerely hope you'll be much less obscure (0.00 / 0)

You're no longer in academiaworld, so you're free of that requirement.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

by: fairleft @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 10:52:14 AM CDT

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those true believers (2.33 / 3)

in Jesus and American apple pie that are bleeding the life and sanity out of the persons of interest they hold at Guantanamo are none too fond of atheists, Ormond. Seeing as The new prez seems inclined to continue the abuses there and maybe perfecting techniques for future use, I might be a bit concerned about it if I held the same beliefs that you do. If not for moral reasons, then for the love of my own skin. Or the skin of my kinz.

"May we live long and die out"

by: supersoling @ Sat May 09, 2009 at 22:51:42 PM CDT

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I'll take my chances. I lived through McCarthy, Reagan, Vietnam, Cointelpro. (2.00 / 1)

I don't live my live in fear of the Man. I wish more people felt that way.

by: Ormond Otvos @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 00:13:20 AM CDT

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Look forward (0.00 / 0)

to more slow news cycles until after Bilderberg meets.
And that joke "How to shoot friends and torture people", not funny by any standards.

by: Lasthorseman @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 20:43:21 PM CDT

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Obama walks back more promises | 20 comments

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