Socrates Rises to the Top of the Internet Zeitgeist

If Breitbart is really being allowed to go there (1.00 / 1)

doesn't that only prove that Socrates is only a Rove fanboy mental patient and not your tortured, unsuccessful double-agent provocateur tirelessly fluffing a hysterical (but re-member; impotent!)leftosphere into an epic self-defeating pants-pissing about the "ct" surrounding The Misshap Of Mike Connell?

More importantly, who will get you hard, now?!

(but of course, still MOST importantly..................

WHY DID SHE LIE ABOUT THE MAILBOX?

)

Fuck I should make some new cartoons about this.

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by: Laura @ Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 22:52:22 PM UTC

If anything is tortured, its the structure, content and "logic" of your comment (3.00 / 1)

The only thing Socrates proves is that the truth is not ideological.

You believing in made up shit is no better than a tea bagger believing in made up shit.

You are the cartoon.

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by: donkeytale @ Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 23:52:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Empty response. (1.00 / 1)

You must really be offended.

Socrates proves

LOL. "Socrates proves" that the truth can be buried via distraction...well, at least to the 1.45 other supergeniuses who read his werk.

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by: Laura @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 00:16:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Empty response to an empty comment. Your jealousy is almost cute..... (3.00 / 1)

but don't fret. Bob Blog still loves u....I now see who you aped in your emptiness.....RIOTOUS!

... Big Jim McBob said on 10/12/2010 @ 6:35 pm PT...

I'm not Socrates. As best as I can tell, he and I are not similar.

Yes you are. You cant change your machine ID numbnuts lol. This is your great winter romance isn't it Socrates?

Why don't you talk about the real reason you have been after Brad eh? You once worked for him, then when you pulled your take over his blog shtick he dumped you over the side, and when that happened, well, you got mad. Then Mr Lou Aubuchont got in your face calling you a homosexual, which got your blood pumping for his hide. Ever since then Lou Aubuchont http://www.rense.com/gen...mUS... has been on your radar screen, and as a matter of fact, you still stalk him to this day.

Well one day when your stalking went too far, Brad may have slipped up and gave your info to him and others probing your fakery, and it was at this point you decided to go after Brad with a vengeance. And it was because he gave your so called private info which he had on you to Lou, and Lou then called the police on you and possibly they visited you and forced you back on your medication, thus clearing it up that you needed to stay away from Lou or else face arrest.

It was at this very critical point in your life that you claimed to others that Brad was going to pay, and pay well for his giving your private info up as Jay Reynolds to Lou. (This is documented)

Ever since then you have been acting like a rejected lover who goes after his ex lover until he kills him. This is why Lou called you a homosexual, because in fact you were coming on to him as one, and he took it personally and told you to back off. Now, I don't really have anything to say about you being gay or not being gay or whatever, because this is not about gayness. What it is about is the reality that you went after Brad because he leaked your personal info which he had on you to Lou, and ever since then you have been after Brad, and when they stopped you from going after Lou because Lou was going to have you arrested, you started going after the weakest link in the chain, and that was Brad. And it was because you felt that Brad was a weak sister, and one to pound day after day just like a rejected lover would do knowing that Brad would probably never respond to you in kind. At any rate, I think you are in fact gay, but not a nice gay, but a guy who threatens people or destroys them when he is rejected by those he loves and or respects.

You have given many people indications that you fall in love with them when you see them. This is your special kindred bond you have with various people on the net, and when it goes further and people wake up and see it for what it is and reject you, you strike out like a spoiled child, looking to destroy that which refuses to love you back. That is about what is is right Socrates? It is about rejection right? Same happened with Donkytake your best friend. Once he called you out on your gayness he also became another enemy of yours, now you even call him a pedo just to cover up that donkytale knew all about you and how you were in real life.

Anyway, as I said, this isn't about your gayness or your mental issues. This is about who you are and what you are, and we know who you are, and also now we know what you are. Remember Socrates, the right wing will eat their children if it will suit them and one day you will find that out. Until then, enjoy looking for love in all the wrong places....

... Brad Friedman said on 10/12/2010 @ 7:51 pm PT...

Big Jim McBob - While I have no dispute with what you said about notorious "Socrates" (also know as "Prepostericity"), Dustin is not him. Moreover, our few rules for commenting here at The BRAD BLOG very clearly bar personal attacks on other commenters. Personal attacks on me are fine, as noted in the rules, but not on other commenters. So please do not so. And please consider this a friendly warning towards that end (as all folks get in cases like this).

For those who wonder who the hell "Socrates/Prepostericity" is, he is an Internet loon who has been stalking me and many others for years, posting all manner of violent screeds and libelous information on these pages and you can thank him for not being able to post some words here without pinging the moderation filter, so that I can avoid my blog being used to libel people in comments. We have no interest in "censoring" legitimate conversation, hopefully on topic, which follows both the law (doesn't libel people) and our rules for commenting here, whether I agree with any particular comment or not.

And no, neither myself or the moderators have the time to baby sit or read every comment, and sometimes moderated comments take time before they are rejected or approved. Thanks to those of you who can help us keep this NOT like a kindergarten class by posting repsonsibly.

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by: donkeytale @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 01:04:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Really elbow deep in this arncha? (3.67 / 3)

(that is way too long to read btw)

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by: Laura @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 01:14:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Who Can Read All His Non-Entertaining Bullshit? (4.00 / 1)

Only an idiot would waste the time.

Why argue with a noise machine that exists only to disrupt?

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by: blues @ Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 05:24:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Kissing more board operator ass again, are you Blews? (0.00 / 0)

I doubt it will work any better for you here than it has at jacks, where the brown lipstick is noticeably smeared all over your face mask.

RIOTOUS!

What a little fascist, toady suck-up you are.

Blews political stance:

[:oO  

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by: donkeytale @ Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 16:19:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I wouldn't say that's the only thing I proved (4.00 / 1)

But it's certainly a good point when looking at fake lefties like LauraJohn. You're correct that it doesn't have a clue. She is reacting exactly how Bradblog would want her to, as if he and Brett have been in some epic battle against Karl Rove. I guess she's never heard of the term strawmen.  

Brad messed up in his response, when right wingers showed up to confront him. If it had been me, I would have said Brett served his time, and I'm unaware that ex-convicts have to pay for their crimes for the rest of their lives.

No, Brad said that Breitbart was disinforming their readers. Brett told Patterico that his take based primarily on the Breitbart piece was full of lies.

I wouldn't give Breitbart too much credit. The information on Kimberlin has been around for a very long time. I'm amazed that the right wing bloggers hadn't picked up on this fascinating story sooner.

According to Laura's twisted logic, anyone confronting Jason Leopold over his equally outrageous schtick concerning alleged indictments with Plamegate were also aiding and abetting Republicans.

Larisa Alexandrovna did lie about the mailbox. I was the only one who pointed that out. Laura and others have shown they are very sadistic, and this is one example of how they think they're hurting my feelings.

I don't even know what she means by that I proved the truth can be buried by distractions. She's not very clear in her writing nor fair when it comes to debate.

I also don't get her alleged knock on how few people have read my blogging. There was a time when Alexa had DFQ2 kicking this places ass. DFQ2 has reappeared on the Alexa radar. I don't even care about stats. I can't guarantee maintaining them, because I'm unsure how much content I can keep providing. A few days ago there were close to 700 hits in one day. My guess is small blogs get anywhere from 50-200 guests a day. I tried to write at the big places. I understood how Democratic Underground unjustly operated, but I was shocked to learn firsthand about Major Flaw and the Kos Kops. It turned out he is close with Larisa and also had moderating powers at DU.

The nasty icing on the cake was seeing in real time how those who tried to steal the Political Flesh Feast legacy were really no different when it comes to cheating. Matty Jack ruined his blog by first treating Dave like crap and then deleting his own posts when we, you first, caught him revising Meta history.

My Left Wing was the first failed effort at producing a fair superblog alternative to DKos which led to Peeder's PFF. Any one who's objective can see that FSZ and this PFF are trash blogs. They don't seem to understand that fiction writers such as Leopold and Kimberlin make lefties look bad. It's probably not even accurate to call those two leftists. Opportunists might be the more appropriate word.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 01:42:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

To be fair to Laura, at least she doesn't whore for donations....like all the others (4.00 / 1)

you mentioned. Peeder didn't either.

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by: donkeytale @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 02:39:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You need to turn up the heat while the audience is in the house....seriously, you have the power, dude. Maybe we should stage (3.00 / 1)

do an NBA pre-season review....that'll put DFQ2 over the top...

[:o)

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by: donkeytale @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 02:43:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe (0.00 / 0)

I like how it's a storehouse for information rather than feeling pressure to maintain ratings.

It's going to be a good year for Joey Crawford. Remember when he ejected Tim Duncan for smiling? Now he can do that, and it's sanctioned by new NBA rules. Also the Celtics looked stacked. This seems more legit than when the Lakers got Payton and Malone at the end of their careers. KG seems to finally have pop back in his legs. Pierce just turned 33. Delonte and Nate look good, and Perk will eventually return. Shaq is saying all the right things, and Jermaine O'Neal isn't that old. This probably sounds like homer talk, but you'll see. Opening night it's Miami at Boston.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:17:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

BTW, this ancient FSZ thread is worth a reprise...supersoling acquits himself admirably here (4.00 / 1)

and we see the beginnings of the cattle fence encroaching on the free range by the likes of the dismal duo of cometman and Melvin.

Pinche Tejano comes off rather well, and of course Vox. jack even noticed the gatekeeperism developing into the herd mentality that finally killed off the remnants of PFF.

Super admits to being a former brad blogger who had questions. Wonder what he thinks of Brad today?

http://www.freespeechzoneblog....

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by: donkeytale @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 03:21:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I just slogged through it (0.00 / 0)

The comments were tough to get through. Some of my posts weren't wicked awesome. Live and learn.

I noticed one Commmentman post which said it all. He wondered if I was NBC's Brian Williams worried about losing my job. Yeah right, the quality of reporting coming from Alexandrovna, Leopold, and Friedman hasn't been seen since the Walter Cronkite Era. [/dripping sarcasm]

So let's see. If I'm not mistaken, myself and David Byron are the only two people who were banned from FSZ. Neither of us broke any rules. I know for sure I didn't.

Now it appears FSZ is reduced to Miep and Blues pontificating, DumbDogg is in the slammer for probably some white collar shenanigans. Spam is allowed to remain and covers close to half the blog. The rest is filled with yawn inducing entries that get next to no comments. Kind of like here and MLW but with the spam.

Meantime, it turns out I was right the whole time, and they were all miserably incorrect. By the way, it was my boss Karl Rove's idea to do that schtick about drastically cutting the military. He thought it would divert the herd's attention; That it would free me up to raise the noise to signal ratio in regards to: 1)Velvet Revolution's election fraud scoops 2) VR's attempts to have Uncle Karl investigated for knocking off that turncoat commie, Michael Connell. That's the stuff.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:35:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Of course Laura also DOESN"T understand what a tool she is. Similar to Fairleft and (5.00 / 1)

Cometman who automatically assume truth from whatever blogs they inhabit for their "information" and then regurgitate same nonsense as if it was their erudition.

She may also not know that I am BANNED at DFQ2!!!

RIOTOUS!

This is a pretty good comment from TLNL, BTW:

the_last_name_left said...
Fox should be an embarassment to conservatives. Decent ones, at least. Most of my friends are conservatives, though pretty liberal ones, relatively, I guess. It's the default position? I don't see Fox as representing their views or ethics at all, really. Or maybe my conservative friends lie to me, because they know what I am like......

There is an irony that it took Breitbart & Co to validate Socrates' issues with Bradblog / Kimberlin. It's a shame that the supposed left couldn't do it, and seemingly never cared.

It also raises two other things -

1) what major leftwing venues are there that one could expect to break this story, anyway? Where are the leftwing Breitbarts?

and

2) Socrates is a leftie whom criticised the (supposed) left - in contradistinction to the numerous comments about this story which suggest the contents of the story are indicative of intrinsic leftie failings. If this stuff about Brad exemplifies the left (as Breitbarters seem to like to imagine) how come it was the leftie Socrates who has been pursuing the matter all this time (when seemingly no-one else cared)?

Actually, I'll add another

3) Bradblog is 'leftwing'? I think it's woolly libertarianism rather than socialism. ie bradblog is not leftwing but rather idealist and individualist employing an essentially conspiracist analysis (which is often (wrongly) considered to be leftwing because its form is anti-corporate, anti-oligarchical and asserts equality (only) at birth.) You'll find nothing about 'the means of production' and 'socialism from below' at Bradblog.

I find it depressing that Bradblog is considered leftwing.

Bradblog's left of what? Crikey - what a pretty pass

His point three is close to as perfect a definition of the Neon Left as I've seen.

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by: donkeytale @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 03:42:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are (3.00 / 2)

funny, KKKarl. But not funny-haha.

And I care as much about Bradblog et al as you do about "information" and "truth".

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by: Laura @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 04:08:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Then you are madly in love with Bob Blog, for I am absolutely passionate about information and truth. (4.00 / 1)

[;o)

Did you check out those information returns in the link? Talk about going "green".

More than a quarter of million expensed in 2006 for printing and publications alone.

Are you on their mailing list? did you receive any publications from the Justice Through Music Foundation?

I'm sure they are very big on Opera....

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by: donkeytale @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 04:22:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

OMG there iz blog exploitin donashuns? (0.00 / 0)

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by: Laura @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 04:26:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I couldn't open up those pdf's (0.00 / 0)

I think I need to update my computer software. The pages were blank for me. So you think it's unlikely $250,000 would be spent on printing and publications? That is a lot of change. What if some of those pamphlets and whatnot asked for donations to be sent to say BradBlog or some other destination? There was also talk about money going into housing and independent contractors. I'm also guessing BradBlog doesn't have to supply what money it has made. TLNL sounds skeptical. He used this word, I think spelled ker-ching! I'm clueless how to investigate the finances. I think it will take a real reporter or perhaps even interested legal powers to really figure out those music and "election integrity" books.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:53:05 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I just thought of something, donkeytale (0.00 / 0)

At BradBlog, Brad's constantly whining for donations. Even recently he said to paraphrase, courageous, independent media is not free. He said the coffers were empty and he might have to close shop. You say there is a big budget for printing and publications. Well, Brad quite often offers a videotape of some stupid documentary he's in with Clint Curtis as a reward for making a donation. So maybe money is being supplied through one place such as VR with the videotapes, and incoming donationsw from chumps is going directly to Brad Friedman. Without a look also at Brad's books, I don't think we're getting the full picture.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 19:39:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

TLNL is a smart kid (0.00 / 0)

You're not banned. It was more like a time-out. Of course I realise you have every reason now to not want to post there. It's up to you. I humbly request if you do, to please sign in with your blogger account. It takes ten extra seconds. I don't want it turning into a noom-like show.

Two people tried to impersonate you already, or one guy failed twice. I know you can't be forged, but I don't want too much inside schtick going on. There's enough good stuff at DFQ2 for us to keep our chins up about it. Thanks for your participation the last year, and for when we were blogging well together at the real DFQ and MLW back in the day.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:44:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

And another thing (3.00 / 1)

According to yourself, Peeder would have front paged this entry. Laura hasn't. As blogs that have attempted to carry on Peeder's legacy, both Pffugee and FSZ are epic fails.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 22:43:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A sense of proportion (3.00 / 2)

'Speedway Bomber' Brett Kimberlin was convicted of some pretty horrible crimes (committed 32 years ago). Now he seems involved with some minor and now ineffective 'Democratic Party is cool' organizations. Larisa wtf is a virtually unknown journalist/blogger, Brad Friedman is a very small-time (but not extremely small-time) blogger 'activist'.

Meanwhile the economy is going to hell, the Afghan war/occupation is in its 9th year, and so on.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 16:31:38 PM UTC

This is a typical concern troll (0.00 / 0)

Fakeleft thinks people actually care about his blogging other than Laura and doberman pinche with her stockholm syndrome. DP just rated his post excellent, that's why I mention her. That's what cowards who are insecure with their own intelligence do. They follow others.

Brad and Larisa have been big parts of the lefty, internet zeitgeist. The story just happened to tie in with the bullshit going on with Daily Kos all these years. This is pure Meta enlightenment. Yet, Fakey feels the need to downplay what has happened. He's either jealous or too much of a wimp to admit I was right and all those people were dreadfully wrong and acted like assholes with no justification. No one gives a shit about him or this blog, so that's why he just posted what he did. He's just another insignificant Commentman, DeeDogg, Melvin, or MattyJack.

Let's all bow to fakeleft for informing us of a lousy economy and ongoing war. Without him, we'd be discussing American Idol and not realise know bad things are.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 19:33:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The dailykos post-democratic anti-free-speech lingo is for unknowing peasants (0.00 / 0)

I whine free speech and spread information the mainstream press doesn't. You dismiss that with exactly the language of a Major Flaw or wtf.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 20:35:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are a self-obsessed thread hijacker (0.00 / 0)

You came onto this thread to downplay a specific story while propping up your own feeble schtick. You might fool people who are unaware of Meta history but not those who are.

The people who were supposed to be propping up free speech disallowed by Daily Kos and Democratic Underground downplayed this story in real time when it was still fresh. As it turns out, I was right, and they were wrong.

Not one other person was putting this story in its full perspective. Some debunked the outrageous tinfoil generated by Velvet Revolution, Larisa, and Brad. Others were well aware of Brett Kimberlin's past but not his recent incarnation as internet player. I was the one who put it all together.

I'm not saying I'm all that. I may just be a bag of chips. However, have you ever had a freelance jounalist say you had become a player? If this is such a non-story, why was it covered by Time Magazine with its Wizard of Odd story?

This is reminiscent of when you attacked Francis Holland at My Left Wing. Maybe you're racist. It was quite odd that you astroturfed for big brother cameras in urban areas. It's quite odd you have pimped for the Iranian theocracy and Huey Long. I'm also unsure if any other so-called progressives have ever referred to Richard Nixon as the last liberal US President.

Supersoling actually did make a fine number of good points in the thread donkeytale linked to. A lot of youse guys are Kos-centric. That you have been unaware of the Democratic Underground zeitgeist is very apparent. It went far beyond Larisa and Brad and included people like Larry Johnson and William Pitt of Truth Out to name just a few.

Here you are in essence agreeing with me that the major liberal forums have been undemocratic. Here is an example of one person being silenced who has now been proven correct. It's amazing that instead of supporting those who have successfully won against such large forces, you choose to attack or belittle them.

I also see you either missed one of my entries or are deliberately obfuscating my call for drastic reductions in military spending. That's not very lefty of you. But then again, neither are those other examples above that donkeytale originally called you out on.

What you have done here is nothing less than an attempt to hijack the thread, akin to Laurajohn's effort. If you think this is such an insignificant story, then why did you bother to make a post?

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 22:18:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm talking about the language of self-respect and respect for others (5.00 / 1)

The word 'troll' and the phrase 'concern troll' don't indicate that sensibility. You've been bashed many a time with those unfair and disrespectful words, so I thought you'd understand. You are practicing your free speech, and I respect that.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 22:30:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

fair truthiness enough n/t (4.00 / 1)

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 22:39:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I Have Zero Respect For donkeyturd And suckrates (2.00 / 1)

Why bother with these obvious neocon assholes???

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by: blues @ Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 05:30:44 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Obvious internet nutjob says he doesn't respect me (0.00 / 0)

Ouchie. Not.

Blewsies should at least give me some credit for promoting a drastic reduction in the military. That covers up my neocon roots.

He should take heed of that methodology, for it's impossible for him to mask his ultra-paranoid, LaRouchite angle. This guy either needs help or has done a swell job making the left look bad. Uncle Karl sends his regards.

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by: socrates @ Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 16:49:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I was disappointed by the (3.33 / 3)

contents (topic) of this diary. Both you and donkeytale have the wherewithal to write about interesting stuff, however, this is not it.

It might be more intriguing if this guy actually does take you to court, but from what I read it looks like idle threats.

Is there anything else you can write about which might be more interesting to the rest of us? If so, please do.

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

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by: doberman pinche @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 22:01:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wow (0.00 / 0)

I give you credit for actually making an appearance rather than thinking rating a post or two is sufficient.

So you don't think this is an interesting story. Whoop-da-doo. I don't like olives, while many people do. My opinion of olives has no relation to how others feel about it.

Your thinking this is an uninteresting story is your prerogative. It doesn't mean that others agree with you. I think you're displaying some of that Kos-centrism super talked about. If Brad Friedman had been a major player at Daily Kos rather than democratic Underground, perhaps you would view this differently.

I've written about some other things with my blogging hobby. You might be interested in what I wrote concerning the satanic panic. You might be into old movies like myself and check out my stuff on that.

But I don't want to come across as a know-it-all ego. I just thought based on the history of this forum and the other Daily Kos offshoots, one might get even a sliver of satisfaction knowing that a lot of things do eventually come out in the wash.

Major Flaw and Larisa got me banned from Daily Kos. I had done nothing wrong. That took place after I was thoroughly censored by Democratic Underground.

Then when I tried to blog at FSZ, I was brutually attacked on arrival. I was eventually banned along with David Byron from a blog that says no one gets banned.

Donkeytale wrote at DFQ2 that he thinks this story is bigger than DFQ's exposing the UGOG's. Perhaps. Probably, imho. I think either way, both have been examples of someone unjustly treated by major forums who eventually found other ways to show that the zeitgeist players were wrong, and we were correct.

I've been totally vindicated. Yes, this is quite satisfying from a personal standpoint. Nonetheless, the best part of this is that information which transcends myself as an individual has finally been validated.

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by: socrates @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 22:36:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Honestly happy that you've been validated (4.00 / 2)

Congratulations.

Dailykos and UGOGs and DU are all things of the past, don't you think? If kos hadn't banned you, you would be subject to near constant spam emails begging for dollars. That's what they've had to resort to. And the only time I've read about Bradblog or related people in the last two/three years is when it's been written about by YOU.

It's ok if you want to temporarily gloat about your recent successes, but please turn your attention to something else (current or deserving of attention) now that this situation is all wrapped up. As you may have noticed, there are terrible things happening all over the world.

I do mean all that in the nicest way.


The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

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by: doberman pinche @ Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 23:25:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, this situation is in the past but its also in the present and in the future. (5.00 / 1)

My point for posting this was two-fold. One to give Socrates some props for cleverly upsetting the apple wagon of the Neon Left and, two, to gauge the responses from those who subsist mainly from digestion of the [rotten] apples of the internet.

Laura, this in not mania you are reading, its parody of our manic online sub culture. Get a clue.

For Vox and Laura, and for your information, the subject matter is always and everywhere us. This is Socrates guiding point and it is mine as well. When we most don't get it is where the truth generally can be found.

Thanks for this.

Reporting on the internet mania as a way for myself and others to self-reflect is not quite the same as furthering the mania. Maybe Laura reads it thusly because her comprehension level/reaction has itself been made irretrievably manic and polarized.

I submit that the internet and its tendency to polar opposition and disregard for mundane stuff like "facts" and "common ground" has led inexorably to the rise of the Tea Party (initially an internet phenomenon), 9-11 truthers (ditto), "election fraud" (double ditto), conspiracy theorizing (mega dittoes), on all sides of the ideological spectrum, which has resulted in all manner of ridiculous fear and loathing driving this country toward the point of the manic overload that we revel in today.

Vox, as always, keeps a sociological perspective on the whiteysphere and notes that this "over and done" "boring" story has definitely accomplished something. I would urge you to do the same, even when you (and I) are among the group being examined.

OTOH this statement:

please turn your attention to something else (current or deserving of attention) now that this situation is all wrapped up. As you may have noticed, there are terrible things happening all over the world.

is truly disappointing to me. Wow. Just wow, dobie.

Or maybe I should simply interpret that statement as part of the typical quarrel of a bitterly divorced couple and let it go?

[;o)

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by: donkeytale @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 14:50:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why is my statement disappointing to you? (3.00 / 1)

I'm encouraging Socrates to broaden his horizons. What is wrong with that? Are you trying to keep him down?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

PS are you ever going to respond to Lord in your other diary?

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

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by: doberman pinche @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 16:04:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

oh sorry i see you responded (3.00 / 1)

should have refreshed the page.

Not used to so much activity here.

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

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by: doberman pinche @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 16:06:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The disappointment comes from your asking him to change. Why dont you address all these terrible things going on in the world if they so concern you so that we might be educated, too? (4.00 / 1)

Why not accept or reject him on his own terms?

Why not address the main part of my comment which is the part I actually put effort and thought into? Do you disagree with any of it?

Instead of asking Socrates and me to do all the hard work why don't you (and Laura for that matter) put forth some actual thinking if you disagree with the content or the technique?

You want this place to have good discussion but then try to squelch it (passive-aggressively on your part and the usual ridiculous ad-homs on Laura's part) when you don't like it.

So you are actually at work towards ending up with an empty blog, and you wonder why.....look in the mirror. Both of you.

This is the un-PFF attitude that is disappointing to me. Jack actually does a better job of it. All he needs to do is reinstate Byron and Socrates and let them be them, and we would have a pretty good place there and this epic fail of a site could mercifully call it a day.  

Unfortunately, Jack succumbed to the anti-whackjob mob mentality and let the petit tyrants rule the day because they didnt like Byron and Socrates hurting their feelings, or wtf.

Boo-hoo. Kos-koppism by any other name is still the same.

---

by: donkeytale @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 16:47:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't address all the terrbile things (4.00 / 1)

because I am absolutely too lazy to do so/don't feel like it. I prefer to read, not write. Very selfish that way.

Socrates on the other hand, is the exact opposite. He has endless energy for blogging or whatever you want to call it. I don't want him to change, I would just like him to take on subject matter that is more interesting to me personally. Ok?

I didn't address the other parts of your post as you seemed to be addressing Laura and Vox, not me.

Any issue you have with Jack you should take up with him.

Also, you sound like my dad. I am not sure I care for your tone.  

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

---

by: doberman pinche @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:17:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"I am not sure I care for your tone." (3.50 / 2)

That was a funny line from The Office. The plus-sized woman (forget the character's name) said it to Angela. It was so well performed, it created a lot of bloopers. The recipient of the remark couldn't stop laughing. I suspect you have had the same effect on donkeytale.

---

by: socrates @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:34:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ok, mom... (0.00 / 0)

I don't want him to change, I would just like him to take on subject matter that is more interesting to me personally. Ok?

[;o)

I know what we can do...lets start a "Reinstate Socrates and Byron to FSZ" campaign and force the anti-whackjobs into a reactionary frenzy.

If successful, this place could shutter, and all could return to FSZ with a clean conscience. Laura could save her 15 bucks.

Would that be interesting enough subject matter for you?

---

by: donkeytale @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:45:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not really (3.00 / 1)

I don't read FSZ. Do you?


The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

---

by: doberman pinche @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 18:02:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

MattyJack has admitted defeat (0.00 / 0)

His new schtick is to allow actual spammers free reign of his dive.

When he perma-banned myself and Lordship, any smidgen of FSZ being the descendent of Political Flesh Feast was thrown out the window.

It was bad enough he had already deleted the UGOG files for a time while simultaneously going gangster talk with Major Flaw characterised as a regular guy.

It was bad enough he allowed many threads to become totally deleted.  

It was bad enough when he came up with those stupid schticks concerning yourself, noom, eric, and even the mysterious shadowthief.

It was equally ludicrous when it emerged his excuse was the whole thing was some sort of class experiment. Blah, blahg, Bertold Blecht.

Deja vu all over again many times over.

The most riotous sequence was perhaps just before MathiusJacques banned me. He posted the revisionis history he was a major player with DFQ exposing the UGOG Kos kops. He banned me because I tracked down threads disproving that. One was a DFQ thread, in which donkeytale came out looking good and was featured by that most holy of bloggers, David Weintraub. DFQ praised donkeytale for having the integrity to confront that person who attempted to steal Peeder's legacy.  

Jack did have a good thing going for quite a while. He even survived many mistakes that would have irretrievably damaged any other blog.

Perhaps the main message of this "socrates is a bad man [/Ali] at the top of the zeitgeist" story, is that no matter how strong a blog looks, no matter how comfy fake lefties feel in their milieus, if they don't play fair and square with their bloggers and the facts, they too will eventually crumble. Kos is a mere shell of itself. MLW is toast. FSZ is almost as dead as this blog is. BradBlog also appears to be at its end. Truth has emerged about Democratic Underground. I doubt they get the revenue they used to from chump donors. Only chumps believe it makes sense to pay for blogging on or reading a website.

Huffington Post will be the next one to see its empire crumble. Not only does it take too long for the pages to load with plenty of fluff to go with the stuff, word is getting around that it too practises unfair censorship.

---

by: socrates @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:31:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good to see you're not hit and running as much with this thread (0.00 / 0)

Last time at MLW you took a dump on Lorraine Berry and left my zombie to take a beating.

I too was interested in seeing how the various numbnuts would respond when this story finally broke. We had a few days of anticipation after Patterico contacted me. It's been very predictable.

I must work for Karl Rove or am helping out other right wing disinfo.

Funny how Brad still hasn't made one comment ever about Brett Kimberlin's past.

The last time this emerged in the zeitgeist, Larisa had that classic meltdown in which she claimed the Speedway Bomber was an exonerated, ex-political prisoner. She vouched for him.

Brad's response has been to say that Breitbart disinforms, and I am a psychotic stalker.

Facts schmacts.

I think Doberman is suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. She seems to actually believe fakeleft's blogging matters and mine doesn't. That perhaps his is political commentary at it's finest. That perhaps it's even revolutionary!

It doesn't matter to her that Laura and Fakey are in support of the Iranian theocracy and Huey Long. The latter is most fascinating. It does seem to back donkeytale's thesis that the "left" from this website have many similarities with teanutters.

---

by: socrates @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 16:56:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I didnt ask your zombie to assist at MLW. I didn't appreciate your comment on Lorraine's looks BTW. She looks fine to me. AND I LIKE HER WRITING TOO. Big success at Salon. (0.00 / 0)

Besides, by the time I got to MLW I was already banned.

And the reality was I didnt have the time. I dont have the time today either, actually, but I care enough about Vox, Byron, Laura, Dobie, Fairleft and you to spend the time.

Fairleft, Laura, Stu have a knack for latching onto the latest planted right woos left memes and thinking quite highly of themselves and their internet-attained "intellectual prowess" in the process of exposing the exact opposite, that they have been duped and spun.

RIOTOUS!

Remember that anti-immigrant schtick Fairleft got sucked into awhile back?

He linked to a "supposed" "progressive" website that was actually promulgated by a group called FAIR, if I remember accurately, which is a minuteman group.  

http://www.fairus.org/site/Pag...

Credit where due, Laura didnt buy that one.

And yes, the ridiculous "Huey Long as a leftist" schtick also spread by Fairleft was a meme planted by Stormfront.

Laura did buy into that one.

http://www.stormfront.org/post...

---

by: donkeytale @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:33:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Aaah, I suspected Mary Scott had banned you again but you never told me that (4.00 / 1)

Yeah, I shouldn't have made the crack about Lorraine's mug. And you're very correct about the flaws in the Three Amigos' blogging. They remind me of Larisa or the "That's the Ticket" dude. There's rarely any logic to their posts. The most recent example is Laura on this thread, just simply irrational. She's made it very difficult to have dialogue with people like Vox and Doberman. They are too silent on certain things just as those you just mentioned, unless I missed it elsewhere. Those things blogged by fakeleft say it all. Ok, I'm done blogging for now.

---

by: socrates @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:40:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Me, too (0.00 / 0)

Ok, I'm done blogging for now.

Later

---

by: donkeytale @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 17:47:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I've been anti-illegal immigrant since I was helping (1.00 / 2)

Cesar register UFW members in the fields. Like Cesar said: it's nothing personal, just the economics of supply versus demand.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

---

by: fairleft @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 15:58:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You've been anti-illegal because you have been duped and spun (0.00 / 0)

and choose to read history selectively.

The fields were filled with illegals then as now. Chicanos of the day were NOT working the fields. To say they were is laughable and an insult to many of my friends from that era, whose parents were skilled and semi-skilled blue collar Americans, heavily unionized, same as my parents were.

Chavez stance against the braceros was solely an issue of scabs versus a striking union. Pyrrhiod. If the illegals joined the union (and many did, although many others were too afraid of the growers who has brought them into the fields) then they were supported by UFW, regardless of their immigation status. In fact, Chavez heavily identified his movement with the national symbols of Mexico in order to entice the illegals to join the union and comfort their fears.

If they refused to join the union they were considered scabs and the union dealt with them harshly, as all unions deal with scabs during a strike.

You wouldn't understand any of this being a dedicated non-union man yourself.

In fact, Cesar Chavez was a champion of immigration reform since the early 70s, during the beginnings of the current wave of illegal immigrants into California from Mexico to escape the harsh poverty became the unstoppable force it is today. Chavez also played a role in the 1986 immigration reform law and the UFW still champions immigration reform to this dayday.

The twisting of Chavez legacy into a rightwing, nativist talking point is shameful. But it underscores both your ignorance and your all-around status as a duped TOOL of right-wing internet propaganda.

---

by: donkeytale @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 21:07:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Of course many many Chicanos were working the fields in the 70s. (0.00 / 0)

It's laughable to pretend otherwise and an insult to many of my friends, including Cesar Chavez and his family, who were "working the fields." What the hell are you getting at?

Chavez's position was a general one, about economic flood of workers and scabs destroying unions. Which in fact is what has happened, with the horrible impact that has had on farmworkers' wages and benefits. Cesar was right, and I honor his memory with my words. Anti-union, anti-worker people dishonor Chavez by changing the story, ignoring the impact of illegal immigration on workers' incomes, and pretending Chavez's clearly economic reasoning was/is 'nativist'. Yeah, right, Cesar Chavez was a nativist.

Emphasis added:

Beginning with the grape boycott of 1965, Chavez both championed the rights of immigrants and advocated vigorous police measures to enforce labor laws. The apparent contradiction between advocating the rights of Mexican immmigrants to fair treatment and yet favoring immigration restrictions led, in the 1970s, to open criticism of Chavez's position by Chicano immigrant-rights activists.

In the early years of the movement, the most contentious point had to do wth the UFW's public statements regarding undocumented labor. Advocating strict immigration controls and a closed-border policy, Chavez, Dolores Huerta, and other union leaders hoped to deprive growers of a vast pool of potential strikebreakers. In his 1969 testimony before the congressional subcommittee on labor, Chavez referred to "illegals" and "green carders" as "natural economic rivals of those who become American citizens or who otherwise decide to stake out their future in this country. . ."

Chavez has always felt that the union should obtain benefits for U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Not surprisingly, he argued . . . for a restrictive immigration policy to reduce immigration. Chavez and his supporters also believed that union enticements were less appealing to immigrants than to more settled Mexican American farm workers. As a consequence, the union opposed the Bracero Program and in 1970 even supported from behind the scenes the California Arnett Bill, which imposed criminal charges against employers who consciously hired undocumented workers.

p. 74
Promise unfulfilled: unions, immigration and the farm workers
Philip L. Martin
http://books.google.com/books?...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

---

by: fairleft @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 21:52:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here are some facts to counteract Fair"left"'s propaganda: (4.00 / 1)

http://www.ufw.org/_page.php?m...

Still, some people falsely claim the UFW is or has been against undocumented workers. So there is no misunderstanding, everyone should clearly understand the following: There are two separate and distinct issues-immigration reform and strikebreaking. Don't confuse them!

The UFW has demonstrated a consistent commitment to immigration reform going back more than 40 years.

Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta worked for years against the infamous 1942-1964 Bracero Program that exploited domestic farm workers who were denied jobs and replaced by imported farm workers who were abused by growers. In part through their efforts, Congress ended the program in 1964.

In 1973, decades before most labor organizations acted, the UFW became one of the very first unions to oppose the "employer sanction," a federal law making it illegal for employers to hire undocumented workers.

UFW co-founder Dolores Huerta played a crucial role in creating the amnesty provisions of the 1986 federal immigration law that enabled 1 million farm workers to become legal residents.

The UFW spent years negotiating with the nation's agricultural industry to create the historic bipartisan AgJobs bill allowing undocumented farm workers in this country to earn the legal right to permanently stay here by continuing to work in agriculture. Supported by a diverse range of more than 500 organizations, AgJobs was approved by the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 27, 2006.

Immigration reform is separate and distinct from the issue of strikebreaking. No one has the right to be a strikebreaker. No legitimate union permits its strikes to be broken by anyone, regardless of race, origin or nationality. Ironically, in past years, those strikers on UFW picketlines most vocal in demanding immigration authorities remove undocumented scabs (or strikebreakers) in the fields were themselves undocumented.

---

by: donkeytale @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 21:26:35 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's the facts, (0.00 / 0)

but I note I screwed up the entry up above, saying all of those quotes were from Philip Martin.

Beginning with the grape boycott of 1965, Chávez both championed the rights of immigrants and advocated vigorous police measures to enforce labor laws. The apparent contradiction between advocating the rights of Mexican immmigrants to fair treatment and yet favoring immigration restrictions led, in the 1970s, to open criticism of Chávez's position by Chicano immigrant-rights activists.

César Chávez: A Triumph of Spirit by Richard Griswold del Castillo, Richard A. Garcia, p. 159.

In the early years of the movement, the most contentious point had to do wth the UFW's public statements regarding undocumented labor. Advocating strict immigration controls and a closed-border policy, Chávez, Dolores Huerta, and other union leaders hoped to deprive growers of a vast pool of potential strikebreakers. In his 1969 testimony before the congressional subcommittee on labor, Chávez referred to "illegals" and "green carders" as "natural economic rivals of those who become American citizens or who otherwise decide to stake out their future in this country. . ."

César Chávez, by Ilan Stavans, p. 25.

Chavez has always felt that the union should obtain benefits for U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Not surprisingly, he argued . . . for a restrictive immigration policy to reduce immigration. Chavez and his supporters also believed that union enticements were less appealing to immigrants than to more settled Mexican American farm workers. As a consequence, the union opposed the Bracero Program and in 1970 even supported from behind the scenes the California Arnett Bill, which imposed criminal charges against employers who consciously hired undocumented workers.

Chicano!: the history of the Mexican American civil rights movement, by Francisco Arturo Rosales, pp. 150-151.

The UFW was well aware that rising illegal immigration was a threat, and in 1981 testified in favor of employer sanctions and ample funds to enforce them.

from Promise Unfulfilled: Why Didn't Collective Bargaining Transform California's Farm Labor Market?
By Philip Martin
January 2004
http://www.cis.org/Unionizatio...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

---

by: fairleft @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 22:05:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The only "fact" you provide here is that you are a tool for extreme right wing views (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for validating me one more time

Selective? You quote one sentence from a 304 page book!!!

I'm sure you've read them all, cover to cover and so are an expert....

RIOTOUS!

Center for Immigration Studies???Where have I heard of them before? Oh yeah, here you go (again) emphasis mine, Mr. Craftsman:

The Center for Immigration Studies describes itself as "the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States." Founded in 1985 as a think tank to support the more activist work of the anti-immigrant Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), CIS is dedicated "to expand the base of public knowledge and understanding of the need for an immigration policy that gives first concern to the broad national interest. The Center is animated by a pro-immigrant, low-immigration vision which seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted."

CIS describes itself as "independent" and "nonpartisan," but its studies, reports, and media releases consistently support its restrictionist agenda and works closely on Capitol Hill with Republican Party immigration restrictionists. However, CIS has achieved credibility with the media and in think tank circles because of its lack of the kind of strident anti-immigrant rhetoric associated with many restrictionist groups, its willingness to invite pro-immigrant voices to its forums, and the scholarly format of its reports.

Definitively, right woos left. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity to illustrate the perils of spreading fake leftism, Mr. 3/16" Socket Wrench.

More on CIS founder John Tanton:

Tanton stands in the center of a web of anti-immigrant and official English groups. As the founder and publisher of Social Contract Press, Tanton has published books that have helped shaped a nationalist ideology focused on the threat of immigrants to the white, English-speaking population. Social Contract books also stoke fears about immigrants taking over the United States, with research that highlights the rapid rise of Spanish-speaking residents and related socioeconomic problems, while ignoring research that points to the positive contributions of immigrants. In addition to FAIR, where he still is a board member, Tanton has been a central player in an array of anti-immigrant, nationalist groups and institutes, including Pro English, U.S. Inc., Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), U.S. English, and Numbers USA. Funding for these and other organizations in which Tanton is a key figure, often flows through the organization, U.S. Inc. (7) (8)

According to Tolerance.org, a project of the Southern Poverty Law Center: "The organized anti-immigration 'movement' is almost entirely the handiwork of one man, Michigan activist John. H. Tanton." In June 2002, it listed thirteen groups that formed part of the "loose-knit Tanton network." The following groups were founded and funded (through U.S. Inc.) by Tanton: Center for Immigration Studies, Federation for American Immigration Reform, NumbersUSA, Pro English, Social Contract Press, U.S. English, and U.S. Inc. Others, such as American Immigration Control Foundation, American Patrol/Voices of Citizens Together, Californians for Population Stabilization, ProjectUSA, are part of the Tanton network because their funding has been channeled through U.S. Inc. Another organization cited by Tolerance.Org, as part of the network is Population-Environment Balance, because Tanton had joined its board. (1)

http://www.rightweb.irc-online...

---

by: donkeytale @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 00:15:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Immigration and the SPLC (0.00 / 0)

Immigration and the SPLC: How the Southern Poverty Law Center Invented a Smear, Served La Raza, Manipulated the Press, and Duped its Donors
By Jerry Kammer
March 2010

(Jerry Kammer, a senior research fellow at CIS, won many awards in his 30 years as a journalist. In 2006 he received a Pulitzer Prize and the George Polk Award for his work in helping uncover the bribery scandal whose central figure was Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham. His work in Mexico for the Arizona Republic was honored with the 1989 Robert F. Kennedy Award for humanitarian journalism.)

Introduction

This report examines the efforts by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) to smear the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) and, by extension, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) and NumbersUSA.

With no serious analysis, the SPLC in late 2007 unilaterally labeled FAIR a "hate group." That poisonous designation became the centerpiece of a "Stop the Hate" campaign launched by the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), also known as La Raza, to call on Congress and the media to exclude FAIR from the national debate on immigration.

The campaign gathered strength as newspapers across the country reported that FAIR had been "designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center." While the news stories generally included FAIR's denial of the charge, thereby providing a semblance of balance, the designation's taint lingered. The SPLC, presenting itself as a non-partisan, public-interest watchdog, never acknowledged - and no reporter ever disclosed - that the center was an active ally of the NCLR in the campaign.

The evidence presented here demonstrates that the SPLC became a propaganda arm of the NCLR. The SPLC's decision to smear FAIR was the work of a kangaroo court, one convened to reach a pre-determined verdict by inventing or distorting evidence. The "Stop the Hate" campaign would more accurately be labeled as a campaign to "Stop the Debate."

As this report notes, FAIR, CIS, and NumbersUSA have raised questions about the social, economic, and fiscal costs of the "comprehensive immigration reform" sought by La Raza and such allies as the National Immigration Forum and America's Voice. Rather than engage in a debate, La Raza and its allies have waged a campaign to have the other side shunned by the press, civil society, and elected officials. It is an effort to destroy the reputations of its targets. It also seeks to intimidate and coerce others into silence. It undermines basic principles of civil society and democratic discussion.

We examine the SPLC's work in the campaign against the background of the law center's history, acknowledging that the SPLC has done admirable work in attacking the Ku Klux Klan and in representing immigrant workers who have been exploited by employers.

But we also review two decades of work by investigative reporters that has exposed SPLC hate-mongering and deception of the donors on whom it depends. Indeed, the SPLC's hometown paper, the Montgomery Advertiser, was a Pulitzer Prize finalist for its nine-day exposé of the SPLC and its founder, Morris Dees, in 1994. The current attack on FAIR is consistent with the duplicity documented by that series and by other journalists who have investigated the SPLC. ...

http://www.cis.org/immigration...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

---

by: fairleft @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 15:23:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

FAIRleft(of what?) Outs his White National Socialism (0.00 / 0)

The Nativist Lobby: Three Faces of Intolerance
Sections
John Tanton and the Nativist Movement
FAIR: The Action Arm
CIS: The "Independent" Think Tank
NumbersUSA: The Grassroots Organizer
splc_nativistlobby.pdf (pdf, 389.8 KB)
Three Washington, D.C.-based immigration-restriction organizations stand at the nexus of the American nativist movement: the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), and NumbersUSA. Although on the surface they appear quite different - the first, the country's best-known anti-immigrant lobbying group; the second, an "independent" think tank; and the third, a powerful grassroots organizer - they are fruits of the same poisonous tree.

FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA are all part of a network of restrictionist organizations conceived and created by John Tanton, the "puppeteer" of the nativist movement and a man with deep racist roots. As the first article in this report shows, Tanton has for decades been at the heart of the white nationalist scene. He has met with leading white supremacists, promoted anti-Semitic ideas, and associated closely with the leaders of a eugenicist foundation once described by a leading newspaper as a "neo-Nazi organization." He has made a series of racist statements about Latinos and worried that they were outbreeding whites. At one point, he wrote candidly that to maintain American culture, "a European-American majority" is required.

FAIR, which Tanton founded and where he remains on the board, has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Among the reasons are its acceptance of $1.2 million from the Pioneer Fund, a group founded to promote the genes of white colonials that funds studies of race, intelligence and genetics. FAIR has also hired as key officials men who also joined white supremacist groups. It has board members who regularly write for hate publications. It promotes racist conspiracy theories about Latinos. And it has produced television programming featuring white nationalists.

CIS was conceived by Tanton and began life as a program of FAIR. CIS presents itself as a scholarly think tank that produces serious immigration studies meant to serve "the broad national interest." But the reality is that CIS has never found any aspect of immigration that it liked, and it has frequently manipulated data to achieve the results it seeks. Its executive director last fall posted an item on the conservative National Review Online website about Washington Mutual, a bank that had earlier issued a press release about its inclusion on a list of "Business Diversity Elites" compiled by Hispanic Business magazine. Over a copy of the bank's press release, the CIS leader posted a headline - "Cause and Effect?" - that suggested a link between the bank's opening its ranks to Latinos and its subsequent collapse.

Like CIS, NumbersUSA bills itself as an organization that operates on its own and rejects racism completely. In fact, NumbersUSA was for the first five years of its existence a program of U.S. Inc., a foundation run by Tanton to fund numerous nativist groups, and its leader was an employee of that foundation for a decade. He helped edit Tanton's racist journal, The Social Contract, and was personally introduced by Tanton to a leader of the Pioneer Fund. He also edited a book by Tanton and another Tanton employee that was banned by the Canadian border officials as hate literature, and on one occasion spoke to the Council of Conservative Citizens, a hate group which has called blacks "a retrograde species of humanity."

Together, FAIR, CIS and NumbersUSA form the core of the nativist lobby in America. In 2007, they were key players in derailing bipartisan, comprehensive immigration reform that had been expected by many observers to pass. Today, these organizations are frequently treated as if they were legitimate, mainstream commentators on immigration. But the truth is that they were all conceived and birthed by a man who sees America under threat by non-white immigrants. And they have never strayed far from their roots. - Mark Potok

---

by: donkeytale @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 at 17:17:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Now I know what the FAIR stands for in your username (0.00 / 0)

as for the "left" part...to quote TLNL at DFQ2:

"Left of what?"

RIOTOUS!!!!!!

---

by: donkeytale @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 00:21:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry, fairleft, (4.00 / 1)

but I think you have taken a wrong turn here.

A seriously wrong turn.

Nevertheless, to be clear: are you here supporting (a) Mr. Chavez, (b) the UFW, (c) those in poverty seeking a better life, (d) all of the above or (e) none of the above?

Are you claiming that Mr. Chavez' work was directed only at citizens or legal immigrants of this country, and that those not in those categories would simply have to deal with their consequences?

And if you are not claiming that, what here is your claim?  What then are the consequences?

---

by: vox humana @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 06:00:56 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

1. Mr. Chavez (3.50 / 2)

2. Yes; i.e., "advocating the rights of [legal] Mexican immigrants to fair treatment and yet favoring immigration restrictions."

3. If illegal immigration is restricted in a meaningful way -- for example through state ID cards that basically cannot be forged and then requiring all employers to check ids, and then severely punishing employers who do not -- then a humanitarian solution should be found for those illegal immigrants who have been here a long time.

However, the problem for those advocating immigration restrictions is that exactly the deal I've outlined -- meaningful employer sanctions combined with a mass amnesty -- was already done in the mid-1980s with Reagan, and that administation and succeeding ones have chosen not to enforce the employer sanctions laws. So, the trust level on my side is extremely low. Any enforcement of the employer sanctions law that relies on the federal government is almost certainly bullshit. A new direction might be giving potential legal employees the right to sue employers wages lost times 3 for employing illegal workers in jobs for which legal employees are qualified.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

---

by: fairleft @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 15:18:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The problem I have with all of this is (0.00 / 0)

when did immigration become "illegal" in a country that claims to love the tired, poor and huddled masses yearning to breathe free?

If employers check IDs, are we advocating for a police state in which we inform upon our suspicious neighbors in collaboration with corporate power?  Or are we simply acknowledging that employers hold all the power and will have to enforce immigration policy in a manner advantageous to them?

If the latter, I am unclear how businesses not getting inexpensive labor would want to report their compatriots for their bottom-line expense account savvy.  I note your suspicion of the Federal government.  Our alternative in your scenario?

Do you have evidence that new immigrants are lowering the wages of people already here and working?  Therein would appear to be the crux of your argument.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

---

by: vox humana @ Thu Oct 21, 2010 at 04:39:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Didn't Laura act as defense counsel for Huey Long? (3.00 / 1)

She bought into a good chunk of that specific Fakeleft schtick. So you're wrong on that donkeytale, imho. These people sound like they took a lot of acid or something. Who would support the Iranian theocracy? It doesn't get much more stu pid dy than that. There's not a drop of intellectualism on this website. One thing is certain about the soaqpblox culture. They're all a bunch of idiots with not much upstairs.

And now fakey's talking Cesar Chavez having been anti-immigration. Whoever this fakeleft dude is, he should move to Germany.

He's like any number of dumbasses who either joined the communists or hare krishnas to pass out pamphlets and sell books, depending on which group brainwashed him first.

These are the low iq trolls, the mediocre, the ones playing at being lefty. They might not be as insane as blues, but a lot of their thought process still is.

These are boring people on a dead blog.  

---

by: socrates @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 18:20:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yu are a job for the Cat Fud Commission, (4.50 / 2)

socrates...

and that's about all I have to say on this topic.

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by: Laura @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 19:01:22 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No your wrong here, dude. I specifically said she bought the planted Huey Long meme (0.00 / 0)

What I said she didnt buy was the nativist anti-immigration fever spread by FAIRleft(of what?).

But clearly, Laura is a DFQ2 fan. She knows all about your old movie fetish....

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by: donkeytale @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 00:27:27 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Huey Long's "Share Our Wealth" movement, (1.00 / 1)

the major provisions, this proposed in 1934:

1.No person would be allowed to accumulate a personal net worth of more than 300 times the average family fortune, which would limit personal assets to between $5 million and $8 million. A graduated capital levy tax would be assessed on all persons with a net worth exceeding $1 million.

2.Annual incomes would be limited to $1 million and inheritances would be capped at $5 million.

3.Every family was to be furnished with a homestead allowance of not less than one-third the average family wealth of the country. Every family was to be guaranteed an annual family income of at least $2,000 to $2,500, or not less than one-third of the average annual family income in the United States. Yearly income, however, cannot exceed more than 300 times the size of the average family income.

4.An old-age pension would be made available for all persons over 60.

5.To balance agricultural production, the government would preserve/store surplus goods, abolishing the practice of destroying surplus food and other necessities due to lack of purchasing power.

6.Veterans would be paid what they were owed (a pension and healthcare benefits).

7.Free education and training for all students to have equal opportunities in all schools, colleges, universities, and other institutions for training in the professions and vocations of life.

8.The raising of revenue and taxes for the support of this program was to come from the reduction of swollen fortunes from the top, as well as for the support of public works to give employment whenever there may be any slackening necessary in private enterprise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 15:27:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Huey Long never delivered on a single one of his promises. He did introduce the Mafia into Louisiana (0.00 / 0)

and a corrupt political machine subculture, remnants of which lasted into the 1990s until Gov. Edwin Edwards went to prison.

From the 1930s to the 1960s, the Cosa Nostra mafia organization, allied with U.S. Sen. Huey P. Long and later Gov. Earl K. Long, monopolized and capitalized on vice in the state like never before, ushering in a hoard of one-armed bandits and call-girls that invaded every corner of Louisiana.

http://www.concordiasentinel.c...

When pressed for details about how he planned to implement S.O.W. as a practical program, Long was (for once) at a loss for words. He didn't have a plan, for he had never seriously considered launching any program resembling S.O.W. Simply, he had exploited the poverty of the populace during the depths of the Great Depression to vault his way to political power.

It is believed by some that populist movements can be precursors for, or building blocks for, fascist movements.[28][29][30] Conspiracist scapegoating employed by various populist movements can create "a seedbed for fascism."[31] National socialist populism interacted with and facilitated fascism in interwar Germany.[32] In this case, distressed middle-class populists during the pre-Nazi Weimar period mobilized their anger at government and big business. The Nazis "parasitized the forms and themes of the populists and moved their constituencies far to the right through ideological appeals involving demagoguery, scapegoating, and conspiracism."[33] According to Fritzsche:

The Nazis expressed the populist yearnings of middle-class constituents and at the same time advocated a strong and resolutely anti-Marxist mobilization....Against "unnaturally" divisive parties and querulous organized interest groups, National Socialists cast themselves as representatives of the commonwealth, of an allegedly betrayed and neglected German public....[b]reaking social barriers of status and caste, and celebrating at least rhetorically the populist ideal of the people's community...[34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

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by: donkeytale @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 at 17:48:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

More on the Mafia/Long relationship (emphasis mine): (0.00 / 0)

Were it not for the Long brothers, the mafia's firm grip on gambling and prostitution may not have been so formidable.

FBI files on Huey and Earl Long recently reviewed by The Sentinel confirm the existence of a relationship between the Longs and New York Cosa Nostra boss Frank Costello.

Southeastern Louisiana history professor Michael Kurtz, in his book, "Earl K. Long: The Saga of Uncle Earl and Louisiana Politics," claims U.S. Sen. Huey Long first met Costello near Costello's home in Sands Point, New York, in 1933.

A June 21, 1939, FBI letter from New Orleans agent B. E. Sackett notes that during "the early part of 1933, the late Senator Huey P. Long is supposed to have entered into a deal in New York City with Frank Costello and Phil Kaistel, whereby they were to have exclusive rights to place slot machines in the city of New Orleans."

Likewise, an FBI crime survey dated October 15, 1948, says when in 1934 "Mayor LaGuardia ran slot machines out of New York City, Costello and his lieutenant, Phil Kaistel, made a tie-up with the late Huey P. Long in Louisiana and took over the slot machine racket in New Orleans."

Costello admitted to the relationship in testimony before a special committee of the U.S. Congress in 1951. He said he met with Long at the New Yorker Hotel in 1934, adding that they already knew one another at that point. Costello said he started his slot machine operations in Louisiana in 1935, with an invitation from Long.

FBI records show Costello ran his business through a front, Louisiana Mint Company, and used Kaistel as his Louisiana lieutenant. Costello admitted to receiving more than $70,000 in profits from this company in 1944.

Records also show the Longs enlisted their political allies in New Orleans, including Mayor Robert Maestri, Roosevelt Hotel owner Seymour Weiss, and Dock Board member Abe Shushan, to work with the mafia vice syndicate.

A July 25, 1936, letter from the FBI's New Orleans field office to FBI director J. Edgar Hoover said, "Seymour Weiss and Robert Maestri are generally credited with the management of the slot machines," which are "controlled by New York." As the Long machine unopposed Democratic Party nominee, Maestri was elected mayor of New Orleans in 1936.

Louisiana State University history professor Alicia Long said Maestri "was essentially given the office of Mayor of New Orleans because of his stroke inside the Long machine."

---

by: donkeytale @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 at 17:50:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Huey Long, idolized Hero of both FAIRleft and the White National Socialist Movement (emphasis mine): (0.00 / 0)

"EVERY MAN A KING, BUT NO ONE WEARS THE CROWN..."

The closest we've ever gotten to a genuine Folkish revolutionary leader in this country was Huey Pierce Long (1894-1935), governor of Louisiana and later a United States Senator. Long is a problematic but fascinating figure to all who study his life and career.

Known as "the Kingfish", Long was unquestionably an egotist and a power-hungry personality who ruthlessly trampled over everyone who got in his way. He was one of the most skillful machine politicians in American history, a master manipulator who became one of the greatest practitioners of the corrupt democratic system of patronage, bribery,corruption, extortion, and deception. On several occasions he called out the Louisiana National Guard to intimidate his political opponents, (who were rather in need of intimidating, if the truth be known.) When he left for the Senate in 1932, Huey hand-picked his own successor as governor, a flunky named 0. K. Allen who was so feckless that a legend arose that he once signed a leaf which blew in through the window and landed on his desk in the State House.

But even Huey Long's worst enemies have never denied that the Kingfish manifested throughout his whole life a profound love, respect and concern for the White Southern working class, the factory workers and sharecroppers and manual laborers who in that day as in this bore the brunt of taxation, conscription in time of war, cynical political exploitation, and arrogant patronizing discrimination by the wealthier classes in the South who from the time of slavery had used the black presence as a source of cheap labor to keep the White workers' wages low, and as a potential threat to keep the poor Whites in line. For the poor Whites to rock the boat, to break with the Bourbons of the planter class, always risked weakening or damaging the social and legal mechanisms of control, with the ever-present danger that the blacks might be turned loose to rob and rape and kill, (as indeed occurred in the 1950s, and which situation prevails to this day in the South and throughout the rest of the country).

But in Huey Long, the White workers no longer had a boss, but a true friend in a position of power. The wealthy liberal elite, the New World Order of the era never forgave Long for it, and eventually they killed him. Long began his battle for White rights in the 1920s when he was elected to the relatively minor position of state Railroad Commissioner. By raising carriage rates for large corporations, notably the all-powerful Standard Oil, and by improving pay, benefits and conditions for the railroad workers Long incurred the anger of the power structure. Twice they tried unsuccessfully to indict Long and remove him from office, but being a skilled attorney as well as a politician, Huey beat them back.

Elected governor in 1928, Long provided widespread employment through road-building and swamp drainage projects. He further enraged the rich and powerful by providing free textbooks and lunches for all Louisiana school children, in those days a positively revolutionary concept, since many White working class children could not go to school because their parents could not afford to buy books. In the little bayou town of St. Martinsville, Long made one of the most famous addresses in American political history, the "Evangeline Speech", one of the most searing indictments of liberal democracy ever delivered by an American political leader. Long was speaking to a crowd of French Cajuns, the despised White minority of Louisiana whom the liberal journalists of that day (as well as this) patronized, mocked, and abused, and whom the wealthy upper class of that day (as well as this) generally considered to be "lower than niggers":

"...Here beneath this oak; Evangeline waited for her lover, who never came. It is a spot made immortal by Longfellow 's poem, but Evangeline is not the only one who has waited here in disappointment. Where are the schools you have waited for your children to have, which have never come? Where are the roads and highways that you send your money to build, which are now no nearer than before? Where are the institutions to care for the sick and the disabled? Evangeline wept bitter tears in her disappointment, but they lasted only through a single lifetime. Your tears in this country, around this oak; have lasted for generations. Give me the chance at last to dry the tears of those who still weep here1" (Long won the election by a landslide.)

As a U. S. Senator Long began to widen his appeal onto a nationwide level in preparation for a presidential bid against Franidin Delano Roosevelt in 1936. Huey built his own national organization through his books Every Man A King and My First 100 Days In The White House, and also through his "Share The Wealth Clubs", whose slogan was "Every man a king, but no one wears the crown."

Long advocated a highly revolutionary and populist program involving not just the restriction of capitalist excesses and better individual conditions for working people, but the actual redistribution of existing wealth, something only Adolf Hitler has ever been able to achieve without mass slaughter. Long's breathtakingly simple plan was to place a legal limit of one million dollars on annual income for individuals, and as well as a cap of ten million dollars on the individual net worth of any one American citizen. By 1930s standards,and even today, this is more than enough money to maintain an individual and his family in the most magnificent luxury, nor is there really any valid reason why any one person needs more income or wealth than this. But by advocating this idea, Long signed his own death warrant.

---

by: donkeytale @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 at 18:08:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Linkee Thingee: (0.00 / 0)

http://www.stormfront.org/post...

---

by: donkeytale @ Wed Oct 20, 2010 at 18:09:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, well, well...! (3.67 / 3)

And the ol' place picks up again with unique ideas and a mix of people you aren't likely to see anywhere else....

At the risk of offending socrates (goodness knows I've done it many times before), I still don't quite get all of this.  Actually, that's not quite accurate.  I think I have a clearer picture of socrates' concern, but I am still not clear if this would has much significance beyond blogworld even if true.  It is so easy to convince ourselves of an importance this medium really does not possess.  Who doesn't want to be a part of something important in the use of one's time?

I DO very much admire this response:

I repeat: please specify anything in my post that you claim is false. I will correct mistakes if there are any, but I will not remove the truth.

That rings true to me as a claim that invites refutation.  That seems fair.

And anyway, all of that may not matter.  After all, here we are.  Well... those of us who are here.  For that at least, I am glad.

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by: vox humana @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 04:08:00 AM UTC

A promise of a 'good faith' correction is automatically a righteous challenge, (3.00 / 1)

no matter the source or motivation? Would you believe me if I said I had a formula to solve any configuration in a screwed-up Rubik's cube? Must all tangents of all arguments remain hypothetically sound, even when they're conceived in false universes?

Not that I think there are any grounds for this litigiousness, but come on! Why encourage the mania, Vox?!

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by: Laura @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 04:56:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sorry, Laura. (0.00 / 0)

No encouragement of mania intended, truly.

I think when someone offers to correct the record if one is in error that that is a good-faith effort.  I note that socrates has done so in the past, albeit grudgingly from time to time.

After all, once could simply state one's opinions and leave the scene.  An idee fixe can be admired or condemned - or both - depending on circumstance.

So... call me Ishmael. Or call him Ishmael.  Or somebody.

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by: vox humana @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 05:45:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I have a friend who can solve the Rubik's cube in a matter of a few minutes or less (0.00 / 0)

and according to him, the solution is a formula.

So, yes, I would believe you.

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by: donkeytale @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 14:55:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You're hijacking your own thread (3.00 / 1)

I sent away for a booklet that explained how to solve it. Yes, it's a mathematical formula. You fricken have to isolate certain parts and move inward or something, I forget.

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by: socrates @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 16:39:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Automatically a "righteous challenge?" (0.00 / 0)

The sources and the motivations are obvious (on both sides) and provide no context to the issue of truth versus libel. The blogger dude was quite civilly and appropriately responding to Kimberlin's vaguely hysterical threat of a lawsuit.

The fact that the guy Kimberlin's threatening is an Asst. DA is rather ironic, in any event. Kimberlin hasnt had much luck with prosecutors in his lifetime, and it doesn't appear he would have much luck with this one either.

But you offer a perfect illustration of your mania while accusing others of same.

RIOTOUS!

Funnier still, you are obviously and totally oblivious.

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by: donkeytale @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 00:41:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jesus you just must go on re-peating yourself (4.00 / 1)

about the most inane shit huh? And Kimberlin's hysterical for responding to any of this shit, that much is true. Even if he did used to eat premature babies and blow up Senior Citizens on Easter Sunday, no one but zombie Lee Atwater and Yucky Buchowski seems to care. Still.  

Riotous!

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by: Laura @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 00:51:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

"No one cares" = "you still care" or why'd you bother sticking your disjointed nose in? (0.00 / 0)

"No one cares" although Kimberlin's been featured recently in Time Magazine.

Obviously, you could care less about the victims, one of whom suicided over the extent of his injuries.

Nice display of callousness. You definitely get credit for that...

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by: donkeytale @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 01:24:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Your fake concern is noted I guess, (4.00 / 1)

as it's the first time I've seen you lament a victim, period. But I see your reading comprehension is still whack, as usual.

Now go feed your dog. He's put your jammies on already, and I'm going to bed early too.

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by: Laura @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 01:50:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks Voxster (3.00 / 1)

This does have significance elsewhere. The good people of Indiana have never forgotten about Brett Kimberlin. There is still debate over election reform, and there's now good reason to keep Brad Friedman out of the discussion.

That quote above was made by Patterico, not me. Though yeah, I've always been willing to retract or correct any mistake made.

I didn't make many mistakes on this story. What I got was brutually attacked for telling the truth, a truth no one else was reporting. Heh, the irony. I have more natural, citizen journalism talent in my pinkie than Friedman does in his whole hand.

Doberman says I've been validated for my boring story. No, I've been vindicated, and my story has been validated.

Laura calls this mania and implies I have been doing dirty work for Karl Rove. The problem with this forum is that person named Laura. She has tried to ruin this thread. She has made herself once more look like an idiot.

I was right, and all those others were wrong.

But Doberman finds it boring. Fairleft also calls it insignificant as do you. The worst part is only donkeytale has confronted Laura. You with your milquetoast approach doesn't fool me. Until you stand up against Laura for the filth she has posted in this thread, I will have no respect for you.

A true Quaker or whatever you are would stand up against injustice. Why is Laura allowed to post lies without anyone like yourself saying stop right there one second a wise guy why i oughta sassa frassa?

---

by: socrates @ Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 16:34:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I read Bob Blog for the first time to find that thread where I'm mentioned as (4.00 / 1)

your gay lover or wtf.

So now we add homophobia to the overt racist character traits of the Neon Left.

As TLNL so succinctly puts it: "left of what?"

Great, great comment. That is why your fine work elicits this vehement reaction, because you've outed the duped poseurs and they don't wike it.

What strikes me as the worst about Friedman is his smarmy, condescending thread patter. He sounds like some 1/2 inch deep radio jock. You can almost hear the college-trained baritone as you read his comments.

He's a trained actor, you say?

Whatever. Vote Only By Mail, snail mail. Thats all it takes to resolve the issue, but there's no money in that solution for anybody. In fact it will cost the taxpayers some, a mere pittance, to be sure.

VOBM has proven to reduce mistakes, fraud and intimidation (which no system will ever totally eliminate) and powerfully enfranchises the poor because of its ease of use. Look at the voting record in Oregon since they implemented VOBM. Look at the politics of the people who fought so hard against it when it was ballot initiative back in the 90s. All. Republicans.

There is no downside, except that vobm would eliminate the need for more of these dedicated servants of the public interest like Friedman and Kimberlin to pander for donations by spreading far and wide the "mania" of election fraud.

That is why the idea has never caught on with the Neon Left. They delude themselves into thinking computer balloting will work if and when the fixes are made. Right. Uh-huh. Send a few more dollars so that we can make sure YOUR democracy gets fixed. We accept all credit cards, cash donations, your kids piggy bank, grandma's inheritance, anything as long as its US currency.

How is this schtick any different than giving money to the church? At least the church transparently accounts for the money.

And for those who think there is no way to check and see if their vote's counted correctly at the good old fashioned post office, I say unto you, have you never sent mail and asked for receipt verification? You are given a bar coded number and are able to log into a secure website to verify receipt. I've done thousands of times and not one mis-sent piece.

A simple reading of your vote box checkmark and the site could also report to you how you voted.  The record would be there for all to see, transparently. Is it perfect. No Neon Lefty, nothing is perfect, in case you havent stopped whining long enough to recognize.

However, mail tampering and mail fraud are serious felonies already on the books.

Check out Oregon, dude. I know. I know. The rest of the country isnt Oregon. Whatever. Dead people will still be sending in their ballots in Illinois, sure. Texas will still vote in Republicans. Yup.

Nothing. Is. Perfect. So keep those donations coming in folks.

---

by: donkeytale @ Sun Oct 17, 2010 at 17:01:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Brad is an ex-actor who showed up out of nowhere. (0.00 / 0)

He was frontpaged by Democratic Underground in early or mid-Summer, 2004, for reasons no one knows, since he only had a Bachelor's degree in Fine Arts. BradBlog was drifting along going slowly until right after the 2004 election.

It's documented by Time Magazine's Wizard of Odd article that Brad first heard of Brett Kimberlin from Justice Through Music's 100 grand reward for election fraud whistleblowers. That was in early November 2006. Two or three days later, Velvet Revolution was cofounded. I guess they hit it off quick. Accoridng to Time, to paraphrase, Brett was the brains and Brad was the frontman. Before then, Brad had been a non-entity in the election integrity zeitgeist.

Things picked up in December 2004, when the Clint Curtis mumbo jumbo was presented, and Brad got the exclusive. Henceforth, he was at the top of the zeitgeist and no longer a nobody.

Another strange occurence was how Bev Harris was totally ripped apart by the DU crowd. They wanted to pick at her taxes. They called her a grifter. In October 2006, it emerged that Kimberlin was the head of VR. Yet for some odd reason, Brad Friedman was never mentioned. For some odd reason, Brad never got the treatment Bev got, even though I don't believe she ever got caught peddling tinfoil. She had even asked Brad some tough questions concerning the Clint Curtis story.

I'm no fan of Bev Harris, just wondering why she got so brutally attacked and Brad never has gotten much criticism except for from a very few lefties, Anonymous Army of Daily Kos and then myself.

Number 5 tolf me him and AA were roommates in Canada. I think they are the same person. I also think it's quite possible Number 5 was shadowthief/blogging curmudgeon. But that's just fun speculation.

It's interesting you mention vote by mail. Brad is vehemently against it. Mr. Fine Arts somehow has succeeded in building this image of himself as an election integrity expert. You must have heard of Andy Stephenson. He used to be Bev Harris' right hand man. He even ran for political office in Washington State. He used to run a Subway shop before becoming a major blogger at DU and in with all the various zeitgeist players such as Larisa, Jeff Wells, and even Brett and Brad. He was even hired for a time by Velvet Revolution. His campaign manager started a website devoted to fighting vote by mail.

Andy was in the thick of things for right wooing left. He spread a lot of LaRouche type junk concerning the satanic panic, and to be specific, the Jeff Gannon as Johnny Gosch meme. That wasn't the only rubbish he peddled, but it's certainly the most famous.

It's actually a very incestuous milieu those folks have been in. Andy's best buddy was this dude called Ben Burch. Ben archives "progressive" blog radio. Brad often praises him. His name may be familiar to some for having harassed that sex therapist out of San Francisco. I think her name is Violet Blue, not sure, memory fails me at times.

Strangely enough Andy also had the infamous 9/11 tinfoil source Delmart Vreeland as a source.

I'm talking strange convolution. And I haven't even mentioned Jason Leopold or Larry Johnson in this post.

Brad had the strangest moderator for the longest time. She was hooked up with Jooos did it type folks and websites. There's been a lot of extremist type posts at BradBlog over the years. It makes me wonder if there hasn't been a Hal Turner type situation going on in addition to the "fundraising."

I'm curious how much BradBlog has raked in. He whines about the coffers being empty and that he might have to hang up the keyboard. He offers a documentary on Clint Curtis, in which he was involved in the making of, in return for donations. Maybe VR has donated to BradBlog those videotapes and that is part of what is mentioned in VR's books as printing, publishing or whatever costs?

If Brad and Brett have been committing fraud, perhaps the FBI are gunshy going after them since they've been amassing names of potential domestic terrorists?

The FBI would like us to think Hal Turner was a fluke and not the rule or not know about that story at all. It backfired on them when they arrested Hal. He had no other option than to admit to having worked for them as a defense. Maybe the FBI doesn't want history repeating itself?

---

by: socrates @ Mon Oct 18, 2010 at 00:23:44 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Careful, socster! (0.00 / 0)

I didn't say I found what you have written insignificant.  I said I am not clear if this would have much significance beyond blog world if true.  Big difference.  After all, how should I know?  I have said before and continue to admit that my head spins when I try to unravel all the threads you have woven.  The difference with some others maybe is that I put the onus for that misunderstanding on myself.  I just have problems following the story (not just this one... any "follow the trail" story), though I can say I am starting to get a more detailed sense of what you are saying.  The fact that I am slow to get it is my fault, I am sure.

As far as the standing up against injustice, it's a fair criticism.  All I can say is, I learned a while back in blogging (a few months ago...?) that speaking up at the wrong time or with the wrong tone can backfire and actually escalate a conflict - no matter how good one's intentions.  It took me a long time to learn that lesson, and I think I hurt a few people in the process.

Maybe now I am too reticent.  It's entirely possible.  I have seen Laura treated poorly, too, accused of all manner of things.  She bears it with admirable equanimity and grace to my eye, as do others here.

Blogworld is tough, isn't it?

---

by: vox humana @ Tue Oct 19, 2010 at 03:55:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]