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"Feelings Are Not Facts"

by: 4kedtongue

Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 14:09:27 PM EST


Dear _________,

I'm sorry for what happened on Saturday.  I'm also sorry for the Sunday night texts, as well.  They were sent out of frustration.  They were inappropriate.  They were adolescent.  It was absolutely wrong for me to send them.

I could address every point of your email and recount all the times I've felt injured by you, but it would serve no purpose.  It would serve no purpose because any injury I've endured was unintended by you.  More to the point, my injuries have been self-inflicted.  I have tried to convince myself that friendship with you is possible.  It's not.  My desire to help you has many sources - most legitimate - but I have denied certain emotional reasons in the hope that altruism and the honest desire to see you free from your struggle would over-shadow my insane romantic desires.

I'm not _____.  I don't have an agenda based on how I picture MY life.  But nor am I a potted plant.  I have feelings, facts be damned.
4kedtongue :: "Feelings Are Not Facts"
I never would have met you were it not for meth.  The circumstances of our meeting are not trivial.  I owe meth that much grudging appreciation; it brought a wonderful person into my life.  How can I expect you to turn our meeting into something good?  I shouldn't expect it.  And I shouldn't help turn it into something comfortable and positive.  Nothing good should come from that drug.  You should hate everything that flows from it...and everyone.  I can no longer exempt myself from that list.  I should not be in your life.  I hate everything about the drug.  I hate its grip on you.  I hate every guy who has ever supplied you.  I hate every guy who has ever fucked you after supplying you.  HATE!  And I hate myself for not recognizing sooner the irony of my situation.

I've read a lot about how long-term meth use damages the very parts of your brain you need in order to make the right decisions when you're triggered.  In order for those areas of your brain to once again function properly, you need to be free of meth for at least a year.  I've heard you completely dismiss prudent advice given by your therapist that would eliminate one source of meth from your life (and said NOTHING for fear of angering and alienating you - my selfishness contributes to your struggle, it doesn't make it easier).  I've witnessed the facts in action.  Phone numbers do not change themselves.  Phones and computers and websites do not just up and walk out of your life when they become tools in your self-destruction.  

But I can walk away.  I can see how we're connected and, as much as it pains me (and you have no idea how hard this is), I can walk away and make sure that no good outcome results from that drug.  You have many friends and activities completely unconnected to that drug.  Those are the people who can help you, if you'll let them.  Those are the activities that will free you.  And given what I've learned (not feel), I would just as soon expect you to accept what I've written here as I would expect a person with 2 broken legs join me on a bike ride through the Marin Headlands.

Feelings are not facts.  Those are the facts, feelings be damned.

I've de-friended you (and _________) on Facebook.  I don't want to hear from you.  It upsets me that I will never really know you - that I was robbed - cheated out of that wonderful opportunity by the very drug that brought us together.  

I will mail your book and dvd's to you tomorrow.  You can contact ___ about getting his book back to him.

I wish you nothing but the best.  I know how difficult your struggle is and how very hard you work to free yourself.  You deserve so much out of life, and I sincerely hope that soon you will be free to enjoy it.  ________, I care for you deeply, I just can't be in your life.  This is the hardest thing I've ever done.  I have to choose between hurting you by remaining in your life, or helping you by removing myself.  I will never stop thinking about you.  Someday you will understand.

Dan
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"Feelings Are Not Facts" | 64 comments
One degree removed... (4.00 / 5)
...and all confidence and certitude sapped.  Nothing has been more difficult.  Broke out in a cold sweat, became light-headed and weak-kneed walking home from work before sending this.  That's never happened to me before.

I'm crushed.

If this is true (1.25 / 4)
You have to stay away from dangerous drugs. You have made the right decision. I take it this person reads your stuff here. If not, if you can't be sure of that, you should send him this letter. I don't usually respond to things like this, but there seems to be a good chance you are an ok person, unlike a scumbag like the anti-semite and Holocaust denying Otvos. Thus this was my two cents.

http://davefromqueens2.blogspo...
http://allaircraftarenotinvolv...
[ Parent ]
No, the person who received this... (4.00 / 4)
...does not read here.  He doesn't know about this site.  My friends are sick of hearing about it.

Otvos is my friend...I won't dignify your slander with a defense.

[ Parent ]
He wrote it (1.00 / 2)
He's clearly been shitting on the Jewish religion. He was talking about the Holocaust. Then he said the facts aren't undisputed. That's Holocaust denial.    

http://davefromqueens2.blogspo...
http://allaircraftarenotinvolv...
[ Parent ]
I appreciate the rec... (4.00 / 2)
...but even if he did write 'it', I'm sure the Jewish religion will endure.  I'm gonna trust my instincts on this one because I've neither the patience nor the inclination to go through the record just to prove you wrong.  Sorry, but you're really risking carpal tunnel syndrome in a vain attempt to discredit someone.  Desist for your own health, mental and physical.
[ Parent ]
I just piss socrates off, and anti-semite is SO easy... (4.50 / 2)
Sorry to hear your life is so stressful, Dan.

I bought a season ticket to the Academy of Sciences, and Mondays and Tuesdays parking is easy. What say? I get free admission and a free guest. (And if anyone else is interested, say so. Tickets are usually $25)

They have interesting food at the Cafe there, not too exorbitant.

Nice writing. Ain't drugs a bitch? It took me years to realize that romance begun in a bar is malformed.

0

[ Parent ]
I shit on all religions, and regard religious people as mental cripples. (0.00 / 0)

I see you're religious, socrates. All facts about the Holocaust are suspect, just like all reports from Palestine are suspect.
[ Parent ]
You're full of shit Otvos (1.00 / 1)
Thanks for admitting you're a Holocaust denier. I only found the one quote were you said the numbers are disputed. Thanks for this.

I also see what you wrote about your Dad being a higher up military guy. I see you started some poser Hippie Mission in Spokane, that you didn't consider the Vietnam War a war. I saw that you weren't in the Peace Movement or into protesting. I see that you had mostly homeless teens hanging out with you when you were 26.

You're a focking variation on Lyndon Larouche.

I didn't say anything about my religious inclinations. But I will stick up for any people you decide to spew your hatred against. You're a fat, ugly, waste of a human. You wrote, "On further reflection, I regard Stack's act as heroism." So are you a form of cointelpro or did you drink too much of the Larouche koolaid? I've got a new blog entry in the works. People need to know about you, and what you represent. If the alexa ratings are for real, the word will get out on you. My blog at last check was 200,000 to 400,000 slots above this one and FSZ. So it appears for all your spamming on the internet, no one gives a shit about what you think, while many seem to appear to have checked into my blogging. I'm not the one who denies the Holocaust and calls a domestic terrorist's actions heroics. There's reasonable cause to think you are an internet fake. At a minimum, you are an old, fat, ugly, and boring douchebag.  

http://davefromqueens2.blogspo...
http://allaircraftarenotinvolv...

[ Parent ]
Tell me how you really feel! (4.00 / 1)

I'm not interested in how many people read me, or what they think.

I don't deny the Shoah. I do think it's overblown due to a very specifically directed campaign. There are, of course, a good percentage of Jews who wish the whole damn thing would go away and let them live their lives. But that's just a side effect of spooling your life around someone else's view of the intentions of the universe, a trait you share.

Your compounded inability to read a factual sentence properly constructed, coupled with your extreme hatred and paranoia are not unusual.

You got a lot of stuff wrong up above. Carry on.

[ Parent ]
Meth... (4.67 / 6)
I've seen groups of long time friends turn on each other in post-meth binge langour. For no reason. Like barking dogs.

I also broke my wrist in a car accident, naively following a delayed direction from my friend who'd been up for a week. Breaking my wrist probably saved me from an actual addiction, I went straight home to bed for about 3 days...

It IS pure evil. And really only fun for the first few times. Though I did have a very successful job interview one morning because of it.

Love and hard drugs, really what can be done. Sorry for your trauma.  

I debated a long time... (4.60 / 5)
...before posting this here.

I've never done it.  I didn't know anything about it beyond its outward manifestations.  I had no idea how it affected the brain, how insidious its particular hold on a person is.  

I coordinated a dental program which provided free treatment to HIV-pos SF residents and saw men in their early 20's having all their teeth removed, but I always maintained a professional detachment.  Actually, I was the 'go-to' guy as far as bureaucrats went -- confident, knowledgeable, efficient, dependable to go the extra mile and see something through.  Now, throughout this entire relationship with someone genuinely trying to kick it, I have been reduced to someone who second-guesses every decision; someone who has held back in offering honest advice for fear of alienating someone who is incapable of making the right decisions and losing my ability to be any sort of influence; someone whose only power is the power to do real damage by being inconsistent rather than help.  I've never felt worse about myself and my abilities.  I feel as though I've given up, that it has beat me.

Sadly, we REALLY like each other.  He's so wonderful.  Educated at an elite west coast university and in the process of getting his PhD at an Ivy League school...side-tracked by his addiction.  A scientist by training, but with a real love of Literature and language and photography.  A real Renaissance Man.  

I've never felt more useless.

[ Parent ]
I'm really sorry (3.67 / 3)
I hope you can manage to keep this person out of your life until they are sober.  

The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory
[ Parent ]
Thanks. (3.00 / 1)
I don't think that'll be a problem.  I'm not a source of what would really drive him to stalk me down...unless he craves my cooking.  

:)

[ Parent ]
You cook? Hmmm... (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
small repertoire... (4.50 / 2)
...but more than proficient.  Vegetarian roommates have been known to eat flesh I've prepared.  

I can cook.

[ Parent ]
You can think, reflect and express, too. (3.67 / 3)
Carry on. You make this blog much more interesting.
[ Parent ]
take it easy on yourself and.... (4.80 / 5)
go with your first instinct. It's right 90 percent of the time. I wouldn't worry until you start second guessing your second guesses :o)

The weirdest shit happened this evening. I read this on my lunch break and had it in and out of my mind for the rest of the day. Later on I ran into a good friend while picking up Chinese food and he told me that an acquaintance of mine had died late last week. Any guesses on the method of death? Mmm Hmm...he aspirated himself into oblivion on painkillers. He leaves two toddlers. Just a useless waste.

You wouldn't want to experience a loss like that up close. So this split that you're initiating is as necessary for you as it is for him because there's always that black cloud lurking nearby. Sad as it is.

On the bright side, because there's always one of those floating nearby, too...get yourself a new pair of shoes or something and head out for a night on the town. That's what gay dudes do, isn't it? :o)

Got nothing but respect for you, Forky :o)

 

"May we live long and die out"

[ Parent ]
New shoes! (3.75 / 4)
I usually buy a ridiculously priced perfume...
[ Parent ]
I need both. (4.00 / 3)
:)

And no one but me to spend my fortune on these days.

[ Parent ]
Haha...I am a perfume psycho... (5.00 / 3)
Isn't there a Diptyque store in San Fran? I'd be there every day lol.

(There's also 'Jacqueline's Perfumery', run by a crazy old frenchman...idk if they're still in business but they used to carry literally everything, from vintages to stuff only available overseas. I've always been curious about this place, it's sort of mythical. Go sniff it out and report back!)


[ Parent ]
I charge one... (5.00 / 3)
...Susan Estrich for a 'Sniff Report'.

;-)

[ Parent ]
hahahaha (4.00 / 2)
Oh man, Forky! Don't do it!
I'm beggin ya :o)

"May we live long and die out"
[ Parent ]
Dude... (4.00 / 1)
...here I am talking about addiction, and I've gone without my fix for how long?
I'm jonesin' here.  Avert your eyes if you have to, but I need it.  
[ Parent ]
I go with Chili Dogs (4.67 / 3)
They're cheap, satisfying, smell great, and best of all...they're biodegradable! :o)

"May we live long and die out"
[ Parent ]
So is... (4.50 / 2)
...Susan Estrich.  Just ask Roger Ailes.
[ Parent ]
You were at least partly right in your detachment... (4.00 / 3)
There are many who don't take it to such stereotypical extremes...who keep their teef, iow. The old 'one hit and you're as good as dead' is applicable to most, but not all. Myself, I know I'd be a bad counsel in such a profession. I've seen too many strong willed people overcome addiction...or avoid it. Making it even worse, a real superminority exists whom are able to somehow function undetected on a societal level(despite alienating friends and family).

But what subculture issue doesn't turn grayer when it involves someone you love...

[ Parent ]
Hmm...not sure why I typed 'whom' (0.00 / 0)
but it's an exceedingly funny word when used improperly.
[ Parent ]
I agree with what you're saying... (5.00 / 3)
...and my detachment isn't because I'm afraid to see some sort of 'Lifetime-made-for-tv' nightmare unfold before my very eyes.  But he's gonna be 31 on Monday.  His life has been put on hold and a promising future is slipping away -- and he's aware of it.

No, the reason I've detached is because I wasn't able to help him.  I couldn't bring myself to say the things he needed to hear because I've seen the way he reacts to advice that he receives from objective professionals.  His vehement, out-of-hand refusals to entertain advice which would shut down points of entry to the drug -- things I had thought of -- scared me into reinforcing what I thought was good advice.  I was afraid he would dump me if I challenged him in that regard.  And for too long, I simply told myself that he didn't need to be challenged because it would be too much for him.

I detached because I was hurting him by being a chicken-shit coward.  I was being selfish, and he was receiving conflicting advice.  Too close and too selfish and getting in the way of REAL help.  I wasn't liking who I was becoming.

[ Parent ]
Hmmm. Who do you know like that? (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Who??? (0.00 / 0)
Completely drawing a blank.
Hate to be thick, but who could you mean?
[ Parent ]
Most every human you know. (3.00 / 1)
It's how we're taught to relate in this society. This is very well expressed:

I was afraid he would dump me if I challenged him in that regard.  And for too long, I simply told myself that he didn't need to be challenged because it would be too much for him.

[ Parent ]
Reading this, (5.00 / 5)
I have a sinking feeling that maybe this is the relationship that was making you so happy - but hoping that this was not the person of the first love you said you felt.

I really hope not. But if so, you could have shown no truer evidence of that love than what you appear to have done.

He was the source of my happiness to too far back... (5.00 / 4)
...I may have commented on it about 5 or 6 months ago.  Probably the reason I've been absent here (developed a life -- a little more than I had bargained for, however).

Anyway, this was sent after 2 days of contemplation.  2 long days of really putting myself aside and doing what was best for him, not me.  Hurts a lot, but it is the first decision I've made in a long time that feels right (probably because it hurt like hell).

[ Parent ]
I feel like one of those idiotic... (4.17 / 6)
...D-Kos sad sacks writing diaries about they can't go outside and enjoy life because of the Filibuster.  Have to admit, this is therapeutic, however -- just closed my office door and had a good, quiet cry.  I feel better now.

:)

Peace, forky! (4.60 / 5)
I don't know if you caught my notice elsewhere, but a some PIP bloggers (Progressive Including Palestine) are having a get-together in Marin on Sat. evening, March 6th after the Bay Area Sabeel Conference.  If that's a gathering you'd like to attend, e-mail me for details.  Of course, you're welcome to e-mail me for any other reason as well.
[ Parent ]
Feelings are not facts? Only when you are on drugs..... (3.67 / 3)
[projection alert]

There's a tendency, in sophisticated circles at least, to eschew Feelings in lieu of The Rational.  What science is now beginning to acknowledge is that emotions provoke, rather than inhibit, rational thought, and that feelings and reason are inextricably linked in the brain.

Its way too easy to believe in our feelings when we feel good.

Congratulations.


Have you attacked me yet? (0.00 / 0)
If so, I have not noticed.

Would you like to have a formal duel here?

I could work with that.

It may be expected.

It might actually be interesting.

Whaddaya think, donkeytale?

Duel?

Feelings vs. Rational?

You get rational; I get feelings.

We each get to pick our seconds.

I'm up for it.

Miep

[ Parent ]
If you have to ask (4.50 / 4)
then I'm not up for it....


[ Parent ]
Whoa. Nina Simone. (4.50 / 4)
Good job, Mr. keytale. Excellent job.

But I would watch a pay-per-view debate between you and Ms. Miep.

As long as it were free.

[ Parent ]
No offense to Miep, but I'd rather knock knees with Miss Simone.... (4.00 / 3)

[ Parent ]
excellent (4.50 / 2)
and I haven't even watched the videos.

Cool, thanks. We can blog.

Later.

[ Parent ]
Arriving late, as usual, (0.00 / 0)
what's the blockquote from?
[ Parent ]
from me... (3.00 / 1)
...from the diary I posted just prior to this on:

http://pffugeecamp.com/diary/6...

[ Parent ]
I had to know who wrote (0.00 / 0)
"emotions provoke, rather than inhibit, rational thought".  It's got to be one of the most ludicrous sentences ever written.

It's sad to see that you are still getting sucked in by the right wing campaign:  since reality has a liberal bias, they attack reality itself.

They are experts at controlling emotions.  Especially fear and anger.

[ Parent ]
And of course (0.00 / 0)
they love the emotions of nationalistic pride and racial hatred.  Provoked a lot of rational thought, those have.
[ Parent ]
Thought IS an action, at the conscious level. (0.00 / 0)

Of course there are a lot of pre-emergent thoughts nascent below the surface etc. Williamcalvin.com does the best job I've seen of explaining the accelerated realtime Darwinian process that allows a particular thought to dominate others.

It's kinda fun to mess with the filtering/dominance process, in one's self, and in others, by changing the filter parameters with trick language. Religious education as child abuse, for instance...

The idea is to rattle the sociological cage a little, and let some of the animals out, or maybe free the wise people. Wisdom can be as simple as noting the frequency at which some view is revealed as bullshit.

Our youth are now bombarded by provably stupid propaganda at a higher rate, and becoming "cynical" and "skeptical" earlier and more effectively in their life.

It's a good thing. It allows them to notice that "Professor Obama" is not really a pejorative, for instance.

[ Parent ]
Oops! (4.00 / 1)
Sorry for the hostile response.  I thot I was replying to a Donkeytale comment.
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure if I'm correctly reading what you're saying... (3.00 / 2)
...please elucidate further.
[ Parent ]
I kew I was being too cryptic and pressed for time....essentially, like Vox I noted a connection between (4.00 / 2)
yur two dairies, and I see them as complementary not contradictory.

There is but a small subtle difference between thots and feelings, one always provoke the other, and they have a range from good----bad, happy/sad, etc. These are in response to stimulus of some kind, either external or internal, a response.

What I was congratulating you on was the ability to experience these bad feelings factually, acknowledge what they were about mentally and then process them into action taken.

The correct action taken in response to our thots and feelings is really what matters.

Not many peope, including yurs truly, do this consistently very well it seems to me. In the disinformation age, with all the bombardment from without, it becomes more difficult to process thots and feelings accurately (factually).

We seem to want to deny or ignore our bad/sad emotions and "eliminate the negative and accentuate the positive" as the saying goes, in the "self help - self esteeem" anti-depressant society.

Some people respond to bad feelings in the most extreme and dumb ways, as denali suggests, but mostly we ignore/repress or modify our responses into something unreal, as Gzodik notes.

Real = facts, in this case.

Thats all I meant....

[ Parent ]
There are plenty of people that have believed their bad feelings (0.00 / 0)
You just don't hear about them because many of them offed themselves.

I think this has always been my point.  Don't believe the bad feelings, especially if they're not directing you to act in any way that is useful.

[ Parent ]
WTF??? (3.00 / 1)
'Feelings' can be both good and bad...but not invalid.  And, whether good or bad, can PROVOKE rational thought.

Depression is an illness, and certainly NOT what's being discussed.

[ Parent ]
I'm sorry about everything that is bad or wrong or sad. (0.00 / 0)
Feelings are not facts. But they both have their worth; they both are valid.
I'm not sure about this. (4.00 / 2)
Sometimes, feelings are facts.

And in keeping with a diary earlier from Mr. ongue (maybe submitted in contradiction to this one?), I would submit that "facts" such that they are are not entirely discernible from science. Sometimes, they come from simply living and being. The body politick.

And I'm glad you have come back 'round, Miep! The spectrum of points of view here of late have been getting more interesting. Thanks for being part of that.

[ Parent ]
"Feelings Are Not Fact" (3.00 / 2)
The quotation marks are significant.  It's what he wrote to me.  This was not posted as a contradiction to my earlier post, but rather as a confirmation.  My feelings were invaluable to me in coming to this decision.   It was ignoring them -- my attempt to stifle them -- that led to the trouble.
[ Parent ]
no they're not vox (3.00 / 1)
Feelings are feelings.  Sometimes they seem factual because they shadow truths.  Most often they don't.  You can feel good about real things, and feel bad.  It's a function of how much you mind your feelings.  Most people have minimized that function because culture, and often advertisers, tell them to.
[ Parent ]
yes they are d3n4l1 (4.00 / 4)
sometimes.

There are indeed emotional and kinesthetic truths. Facts.

Not every fact is universal. That's where the path to error begins, in that process of discernment.

[ Parent ]
Sorry For The Sad Situation (0.00 / 0)
I used to think Forky was a villain around here.

Sometimes there is no good logical approach, and you must go with your feelings. The meth thing is strange. Did it once, and saw how it can be addicting. I think a person could be addicted to it "instantly."

I knew a few speed freaks. They were interesting but wacky. If they keep taking the stuff, they probably won't live long. Sorry for the sad situation though. There sure are sadder ones, I'm afraid.

Hey Miep: there is no point in "challenging" donkey or socrat. They lack all sincerity. They complain about stupid non-issues like "anti-semitism" and various irrelevancies, like "right-wingism" and even the aristocratic know-everything LaRouch. Why argue with people who are only here to fuck everybody around? I disagree with Laura at times, but wouldn't come here to just disrespect her all the time. What reasonably normal person would?

Are you on the record (4.50 / 2)
as "reasonably normal". Is that supposed to be a good thing? :o) C'mon man! Broaden your horizons and try to see the "reasonably normal" in everyone. Even though I know it's a stretch in the cases of some peoples here :o)

"May we live long and die out"
[ Parent ]
and yes, instant addiction (0.00 / 0)
is a sad sight to behold. A childhood buddy of mine put a crack pipe to his mouth one time as a young, young man and  a good 25 years later is still chasing that first high, while losing everything of his possessions, his loves, and himself along the way.

"May we live long and die out"
[ Parent ]
There Is Just Too Much That Sucks... (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Reasonably Normal Is Great! Unreasonably Abnormal Is Far Greater !!! (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
Amen to that. Crack IS addictive, and not in a good way. (0.00 / 0)
That, and hot rodding motorcycles are really dangerous.

I've watched many a wreck in both fields.

[ Parent ]
You Bet Your Churly Ass. I Define 'Normal' For Myself!!! (2.00 / 1)

I'm sorry... (0.00 / 0)
It hurts my heart 4ked.

I have watched a young American Woman slide deep down the crack hole. I use to let her come over for food and a bath (I like crazy) but not so fucking crazy. Its so ugly now I yell at her on the road. Tell her to get the fuck away from me. It hurts me, but I can not help her any more.

Good-Luck

Ignorance is curable (Dyslexia is NOT)  

"Feelings Are Not Facts" | 64 comments
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