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Who's a thugocracy, Saudi Arabia or Iran? (POLL!)

by: fairleft

Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 16:32:42 PM EST


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Iran is a theocracy/democracy mix and not a democracy (which 80% of Iranians desire (p. 3, pdf)). However, at least the nation is not an openly nepotistic thugocracy like, say, Egypt, and at least it doesn't ban the leaders of its second biggest ethnic group from its national elections, as Iraq has just done. Also, at least Iran is not a military dependency unable to be an sovereign 'ocracy' in any important way, like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Afghanistan. And, at least it managed last June to elect the president that most of its people voted for, which even the U.S. is unable to do on a consistent basis. . . .

fairleft :: Who's a thugocracy, Saudi Arabia or Iran? (POLL!)
. . . (Briefly about Iran's flawed but roughly accurate vote last June, read the the best done poll (pdf), written up in a Washington Post op-ed last June, and a recent analysis of multiple polls.) And so, doesn't it feel surreal when Hillary Clinton attacks Iran as drifting toward military dictatorship while sipping tea with King Abdullah, absolute monarch of Saudi Arabia, our leading puppet/ally in the Persian Gulf? Yeah, it does. But, more importantly, how does the ratcheted-up name-calling regime-change rhetoric (see the following article) help Iran, Iranians, or the cause of peace?


Hillary Talks Tough On Iran
Monday, 15 February 2010 7:09AM
CBS/AP

DOHA, Qatar -- U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Monday the Obama administration believes Iran is becoming a military dictatorship.

In remarks to Arab students at Carnegie Mellon's campus in Qatar, Clinton said the Revolutionary Guard Corps in Iran appears to have gained so much power that it effectively is supplanting the government.

"Iran is moving toward a military dictatorship," she told the crowd.

Richard Haass, President of the Council on Foreign Relations think-tank in Washington, told "Early Show" co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez on Monday that Secretary Clinton's assessment was accurate.

Iran is "no longer a theocracy, it's a thug-ocracy," quipped Haass . . .

(POLL preview) Which of these Middle Eastern nations do you think is a 'thug-ocracy'?

1. Iran
2. Saudi Arabia (U.S. protectorate)
3. (U.S.-occupied) Iraq
4. (NATO-occupied) Afghanistan
5. Egypt (recipient of $2 billion a year in U.S. foreign aid)
6. Hard to choose just one.
7. 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.
8. None of the above.
9. I'm not sure / I don't know.

I'm pretty good at predicting stuff (spot on last Friday about the Marjah non-event), and it seems to me inevitable that another round of in-fact mild sanctions will be imposed on Iran, no regime change will come close to occurring, Iran will continue to develop its nuclear power capacity as it feels it has the right to, and the U.S. will continue its harsh 'Iran is enemy No. 1' rhetoric.

What should concern peace-loving people is not that this new rhetoric means Barack Obama is preparing to start a third U.S. war in the Middle East, but that another three years of fear-stoking and name-calling by, across-the-board, all the Democratic Party top guns, leads inevitably to a bipartisan war when the Republican neocons return to power. Yeah, just like the war on Iraq, it will likely be the Republicans turning blistering talk into action. So White House Democrats having now worked themselves up into a furious level of anti-Iran talk is definitely not a good thing.

And the barebones of the nuke conflict, I'll remind everyone again, now is that Iran continues simply to ask for simultaneous exchange of its processed uranium for made-in-the-West fuel rods:

At a news conference in Tehran on Tuesday, reports said, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reiterated that Iran was ready to suspend enrichment if it could exchange its low-enriched uranium stockpile for processed fuel rods from abroad. But he said the swap should be "simultaneous" - a demand already dismissed by the United States and its allies.

Us underlings, the citizens of the West, have never been told why this seemingly innocuous condition has been rejected.

P.S. Two interesting articles to check out.

1. Should U.S. Iran policy be regime change, when not even most of the failed rebellion/reform movement, Iran's Green Movement, wants that? Discussing that Green phenomenon and the June election, Paul Robinson (professor of public and international affairs at the University of Ottawa) wrote last Friday:

As for Iran, research released last week by the World Public Opinion organization, based on an analysis of numerous pre- and post-election surveys, shows that whatever electoral fraud took place during the presidential election did not alter the result. Even if the official results might have exaggerated Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's lead, the Iranian president almost certainly did win more than 50 per cent of the vote. The vast majority of Iranians consider his election legitimate. The regime remains secure in power, and its president represents the will of its people far more than his opponents do.

In our enthusiasm to find others who appear to share our goals, we have allowed ourselves to be fooled into believing that anybody we dislike is by necessity illegitimate, that our enemy's enemy is our friend, and that anybody who talks the talk of democracy is a democrat. Our interests have suffered as a result, and so have those of our alleged allies. . . .

In the meantime, the mistaken belief that the Green revolution will soon bring the Iranian regime to its knees is encouraging many in the U.S. Congress to ramp up sanctions against Iran. With the regime about to fall, now is not the time to relax the pressure, the logic goes. The result, sadly, will be further diplomatic stalemate. The regime will most likely not fall, and any chance of serious engagement will be lost for a long time.

2. Ardeshir Ommani (co-founder of the American Iranian Friendship Committee, (AIFC)) yesterday examined the class nature of Iran's Green Movement:

Essentially, the social groupings within the Green Movement are heterogeneous in their class character, philosophical outlook, their views of the future mode of production and social relations, the nature of the foreign policy and the strategy of attaining state power. The amorphous "movement" consists of reactionary monarchist groups, the pro-U.S. terrorist organization of Mojahedin Khalgh, along with the conservative segment of Iran's national bourgeoisie and even some misguided left leaning individuals and organizations, connected to a small but vociferous section of the upper-middle class secular Iranians in various cities. This "movement" lacks a written set of philosophical and socio-economic objectives that the future members of this bloc can examine and express their consent and commitment to. The "movement" lacks a rational organizational form with an elementary chain of command. . . .

As the President of the National Iranian American Council (NIAC), Trita Parsi along with his relative, Rouzbeh Parsi, in an article entitled "Iran's unhappy Anniversary" wrote in the Daily Beast, "There are elements around Mr. Hossein Mousavi, the opposition leader who want to reclaim the revolution through a non-violent campaign within the framework of the current constitution." Then he continues, "There are also people within the movement who see an opportunity to do away with Iran's Islamic system as a whole." If we take Parsi's assertion seriously, there must have been leaders among the "reformists" who were ready to use armed struggle to seize power.

. . . A major shortcoming of the "movement" has been that it had no roots in the major toiling classes and among the Basij (militia) forces, which overwhelmingly come from working class background. During the entire eight-month period following the Presidential election in June 2008, not even one major work stoppage was declared in sympathy with the movement by the vast merchant class (bazaris) that is influential in the economic and political spheres the country so much depends on. The farmers, one third of the work force, were the solid supporters of Ahmadinejad and felt a great alienation between themselves and the well-to-do residents of northern Tehran, with their pricey real estate and foreign-made cars, whereas in the 1979 Revolution that overthrew the Shah, the shopkeepers, the merchants, and the landless farmers all played significant roles. Furthermore, no significant number of senior clerics joined the reform movement.

The "Green Movement" has remained an off-shoot of the petty-bourgeoisie, an upper-middle class urban population that by the nature of its work within the workforce is separated from the working class and farmers working on small plots of land throughout the country. . . .

Poll
Which of these Middle Eastern nations do you think is a 'thug-ocracy'?
1. Iran
2. (U.S. protectorate) Saudi Arabia
3. (U.S.-occupied) Iraq
4. (NATO-occupied) Afghanistan
5. Egypt
6. Hard to choose just one
7. 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5
8. None of the above
9. I’m not sure / I don’t know

Results

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Lebanon, Jordan, UAE, Libya etc etc etc (4.00 / 1)
Blinging us all closer together.



Iranz a blingocracy (0.00 / 0)

ayafooker kakamenei worth over $30 billion

LONDON (Jan. 5) -- Iran's supreme leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, likes to portray himself as a simple man of faith, interested only in spiritual -- not material -- wealth. But an exiled Iranian filmmaker says that behind this frugal front, Khamenei luxuriates in an opulent lifestyle supported by an ill-gained fortune of about $30 billion.

His sources say that since the early 1980s -- Khamenei was president from 1981 to '89 -- the supreme leader has gained control of the Iranian economy by granting key positions to family members and close allies. His brother Hassan, for example, oversees the Oil Ministry, a brother-in-law has a monopoly on imports of Sony electrical equipment, and the father of one of his daughters-in-law handles the state's land sales.

Makhmalbaf alleges that Iran's leading man of faith -- whom opposition protesters accuse of rigging last summer's re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- used these connections to siphon off $12 billion in commissions from oil sales, $2 billion from land deals and $6 billion from the arms business. Ahmadinejad has also allegedly handed him $10 billion over the past four years.

ayafooker siphons off billions while handing out crumbs to the civil servant slave class who run the state beauracracy . how dreary

what a scam. it's like a mega mafia shakedown racket. ayafooker's shakin down the entire populace!

and how much have the other top mullahs and Rev Guard a-holes siphoned off for their personal fortunes? It's a swindle of super mega proportions.

//

The rulers in each of these two blingocracies have a lot in common.....

//


[ Parent ]
goode strategy (0.00 / 0)
WASHINGTON-U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's accusation this week that Iran is becoming a military dictatorship run by elements of the militant Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is the public expression of conclusions privately drawn by U.S. officials and administration advisers for months.

By going public with those findings at a high-profile event in the Persian Gulf, however, senior U.S. officials and Iran analysts said the administration may be able to rally world opinion against the elite military group in a way it has yet to manage against the religious leaders who sit atop the regime.

Gordon Duguid, a State Department spokesman, continued to press the administration's case against the Revolutionary Guards on Tuesday, saying the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, is "currently in control" of nine of 22 cabinet ministries, "an unprecedented level since the Islamic Republic was established" in 1979.

U.S. officials acknowledge that focusing on the Revolutionary Guards also allows Washington to target an organization that is-through its paramilitary militia, the Basij-primarily responsible for the violent crackdown against demonstrators in the wake of June's presidential elections.

The U.S. administration has faced months of criticism from human-rights advocates for not backing Iranian dissidents more vociferously.

The IRGC is a convenient target because it's the entity that manages Iran's nuclear program, it's the entity that liaises with extremist groups throughout the Middle East, and it's the entity which is overseeing the brutal crackdown on the Iranian people, said Karim Sadjadpour, an Iran expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

http://online.wsj.com/article/...



[ Parent ]
WSJ, the neocon warriors' daily propaganda (0.00 / 0)
Let's see how fucking LMAO effective the sanctions will be. Read the atimes article I linked to --

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middl...

-- China will veto any sanctions that would be effective, but will go along with ineffective ones. They don't want to be dependent on the U.S. (which includes Saudi Arabia) for their oil supplies. Bet On It.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
My fairleft2 Daily Kos party over. (0.00 / 0)
Loved a few, messed with several, then disappeared. They finally figured out that fairleft2 is actually fairleft.

Last chance to vote in one of my polls over there:

http://fairleft2.dailykos.com/...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


My main offense seemed to be spreading the 'meme' (0.00 / 0)
that Ahmadinejad, based on various Western experts' analysis, very likely won last year's election (by a fairly wide margin). Mentioning and defending that reality appears to be beyond the pale, a bannable offense at DailyKos. I had a feeling that might be the case, which is one reason I put out this diary over there. Very fucking strange, but possibly only to me and similar, who don't imbibe our required daily dose of mainstream U.S. propaganda/'news'.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
donkeytale exposed failfake months ago (0.00 / 0)
Remember the Giligan's Island Fiasco? Then Laurajohn said there's no proof Huey Long was corrupt. Might as well link to Rense and Alex Jones in the blogroll! The worst offense is this clown acting like a freeper troll. He tries to astroturf supporting the mullahs as a leftist cause. Rioticity. Or as Mippy would say, Oh Noes!11!!1!1  

http://davefromqueens2.blogspo...
http://allaircraftarenotinvolv...


[ Parent ]
Could you please step into the current millenia? (0.00 / 0)
Thanks, sir.

[ Parent ]
No he didn't; no; no she didn't; huh?; huh?; huh? (0.00 / 0)
entee

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Cease and desist, (4.00 / 1)
this will be your only warning.

achtung!


[ Parent ]
Who's the thugocracy with the prettiest veil of concern? (5.00 / 2)
I'm sorry but (5.00 / 2)
if this anthropologist is representative of the quality of deep thinkers we have in this country, then he and they are an utter joke. How anyone so highly educated, especially in a social field like anthropology, could believe for a split fucking second that any program  controlled by and designed to assist the U.S. military would be anything approaching ethical, is a mind bender.

His critique at his resignation (someone pat that boy on the head) just reveals his complete disconnect from reality if he believes anyone will even read it, instead of tossing it in the trash.

He might as well have asked Josef Mengele to lighten the fuck up when he was engineering twins in Brazil or boiling the skin off of live Jewish children at Auschwitz.

"May we live long and die out"


[ Parent ]
We excel at oblivion (4.00 / 1)
In fact you must, in the ride to notable professional levels. In high school I 'wanted'(you must choose one path) to go on to Anthropology; this was before I comprehended the eventual application of...I think maybe my forming brain was attracted to what sounded like a cosmopolitan life of abstract learning, ie no job or niche. So dumb. If only I were dumb for a little longer, I'd also have a shot at being a 'somebody' like this cruel ex-cardinal of global homogenization.

Juvenilia a la Cass Sunstein. Yes we can. This is high level American achievement.  


[ Parent ]
It's better the military be as incompetent as possible, (0.00 / 0)
all in all. So, 'John' blundered into doing his lefty duty, "given HTS's difficulty in hiring culturally competent social scientists."

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
It seems the idea (0.00 / 0)
to get China on board WRT sanctions against Iran is to guarantee oil from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.....that's why the US is sidling up to SA, because as bad as their gov't is, SA isn't building a nuke like Iran....

Clinton two days ago discussed with Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdel Aziz al-Saud the role his kingdom can play in overcoming Chinese concerns that sanctions on Iran would hurt its oil supplies. China, which has a veto on the UN Security Council, has resisted Western calls for tighter sanctions on Iran.

"The Chinese are being made aware by many countries, not just the United States, of the real threat that a nuclear-armed Iran would present to this region," which provides most of China's oil, Clinton said yesterday in the interview.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest oil supplier to China, and Iran is third, according to Chinese government statistics. China is Iran's largest trading partner with bilateral trade of $29 billion in 2008, according to the Iran-China Chamber of Commerce.

Russia joined the U.S. and France criticizing Iran's nuclear work and said further enrichment of its uranium stock would cause "new concerns" about the intentions of its atomic program.

"If Iran goes forward with this escalation, it would raise new concerns about Iran's nuclear intentions," the countries said in a one-page letter addressed yesterday to the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna.

http://www.businessweek.com/ne...



So the U.S. becomes China's lifeline to Gulf oil? (0.00 / 0)
No, obviously unacceptable to China. Like I said, read the atimes.com article, the best case scenario for the U.S. neocons is symbolically tightened sanctions. And that's not a great scenario, but China obviously won't accept being dependent on the good graces of the U.S. for its oil supplies.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Turkey wants to help (0.00 / 0)
Turkey 'will aid Iran uranium swap'  

Erdogan said Turkey hopes to help resolve the crisis over Iran's controversial nuclear programme

Turkey's prime minister has said his country is willing to serve as the venue for an exchange of Iranian nuclear fuel, in a bid to ease tension between the West and Iran over its nuclear programme.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan told Al Jazeera on Sunday that he hoped to receive a "positive response" from Iran on the proposal, which was originally suggested by the UN nuclear watchdog.

"If Turkey is chosen, it will do what it is asked to do," Erdogan said. "The issue now is how to exchange."

"The Turkish minister in charge of this matter will go to Tehran on Monday and will discuss this issue with the Iranians," Erdogan said, referring to Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish foreign minister, who is scheduled to visit Iran in the coming days.

"We hope that we will get a positive response out of these meetings and that these problems will come to an end."

http://english.aljazeera.net/n...



Iran can simply buy these medical isotopes. (0.00 / 0)

The United States and other nations seeking to restrain Iran's nuclear ambitions are offering to help the Islamic republic purchase medical isotopes on the international market, administration officials said Tuesday.

The offer, officials said, is meant to persuade Iran to halt its controversial push to produce fuel for a medical research reactor. U.S. officials say Tehran's enrichment plan -- it announced this week that it is producing higher-grade enriched uranium than ever before -- is evidence that it is pursuing fuel for a bomb.

The previously undisclosed proposal came as President Obama told reporters that his administration is "developing a significant regime of sanctions" to impose on Iran. He said that action at the U.N. Security Council, which is currently stymied by China's objections to a fourth round of sanctions on Iran, "will be one aspect of that broader effort."

U.N. sanctions do not prohibit Iran from obtaining the medical isotopes on the open market, which is how many nations -- including the United States -- get them for medical purposes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

let's face it. given that iran can't make fuel rods  there's only obe reason for enriching uranium to higher grades...nuke

==


[ Parent ]
A jad (0.00 / 0)
says 4 different things in the same week keeping everybody off balance and trying to divide any united coalition against Iran.....last week he said heez willing to send uranium overseas...

""We have no problem sending our enriched uranium abroad. Some [Western countries] made a noise without cause," Ahmadinejad said. "There is no problem because we are ready to sign an agreement for fuel exchange. We give them the 3.5 percent [enriched] fuel, and after four or five months they deliver the 20 percent [enriched] fuel to us."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/...

Iran has turned down the deal, changed the deal and accepted the deal 14 times already....

stall stall stall, enrich enrich enrich, and work on da bomb all the while.....

-

-


[ Parent ]
Why doesn't the U.S. accept simultaneous exchange? (0.00 / 0)
BTW, I don't see the contradiction that you do. It appears that the 20% enriched uranium would be used to fuel the medical reactor, according to most news reports. Most news reports don't mention the need to transform the uranium into fuel rods, and mebbe it's a minor technological point.

The main thing is, if this entire little controversy could be resolved by simultaneous exchange, why doesn't the U.S. accept that. It seems like a fantastic deal.

What went wrong?

Both sides welcomed the accord initially.  Then serious criticisms emerged in Tehran, and Iran backed out of the deal, leading to the current impasse.

Western hawks and neo-cons have cited Iran's dissatisfaction with the stockpile deal as proof that Ahmadinejad is just stalling for time.  However, the objections in Iran came not from Iran's firebrand President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (he praised the deal as a "victory" for Iran) but from his conservative rivals joined by the titular leaders of the Green Movement in Iran.  It is hardly likely that Ahmadinejad would stall for time by praising a deal that his own side rejects days later, thereby making himself look foolish.

What actually happened?  Ahmadinejad's rivals in Iran castigated him for approving a deal that requires Iran to give up a major bargaining chip (most of its hard-won stockpile of LEU) without getting anything of strategic value in exchange (such as recognition of Iran's right to enrich).

They also heaped scorn on the idea that Iran's hard-won LEU is being entrusted to France.  France may be the only willing country with the technology to manufacture the fuel rods for the Tehran reactor, but France's President Sarkozy can barely bring himself to say the word "Iran" except as part of a call for tougher sanctions.  And France is remembered in Iran as the country that two decades ago expropriated a billion-dollar Iranian investment in a multinational enrichment consortium (Eurodif).

How to salvage the deal (if it can be salvaged)

Iran reportedly has tabled a counter-proposal that would call for a simultaneous switch of French-made fuel rods for Iranian LEU.  Nuclear non-proliferation experts Jim Walsh at MIT and Harold Feiveson at Princeton believe this sort of swap could be structured in a way that meets Iran's need for supply assurance with minimal added risk to U.S. security.

For example: Russia might supply low-enriched uranium to France.  France would process the uranium into fuel rods for Iran. Iran, upon receiving the fuel rods, would immediately send the promised LEU to Russia.  Any move by Iran to seize both LEU and fuel rods during the exchange would be immediately detected and would stand as a major provocation not merely to the United States and France, but to Russia, Iran's most important ally.  The odds of that happening are quite small.

Indeed, if this interim arrangement could be used as a precedent for a long-term arrangement involving the exchange Iranian LEU for light-water reactor fuel rods going forward, that would be an enduring boon to western nuclear security.

http://americanforeignpolicy.o...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
No country has sold medical isotopes to Iran since 1992, (0.00 / 0)
when Argentina resisted U.S. pressure and made a deal.

Also, about the fuel assemblies needed for the Teheran Research Reactor (TRR), here's probably the best source, Josh* of Arms Control Wonk:

It's not clear that Iran is able to make fuel assemblies for either Bushehr or TRR. Both involve proprietary designs that are not necessarily easy to duplicate, at least not overnight.

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com...

So, I don't know what propaganda you read, since you don't provide links on this point, but it is wrong. No one knows whether or not Iran can produce the assemblies needed for the reactor fuel.

*Joshua Pollack

Pollack is a consultant to the U.S. government. He has conducted studies in several areas, including arms control, verification technologies, proliferation, deterrence, intelligence, homeland security, counterterrorism, and Middle East security affairs. He is a regular contributor at the prominent blog Arms Control Wonk, focusing primarily on current challenges to the nuclear nonproliferation regime. He also has written recently about issues surrounding emerging non-nuclear strategic forces, including conventional prompt global strike weapons and strategic missile defenses. He is a graduate of Vassar College and the University of Maryland, where he attended the Maryland School of Public Policy.

http://www.thebulletin.org/web...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Sorry no open thread.... (0.00 / 0)
I really need to start a twitter devoted to my mother....whom i am moving in with at the end of the week.  So i am spending more time with her.. and her growing obessive/compulsive paronia.

So todays tidbit is IDENTITY THEFT!!!!!!!!  Which apparently senior are all freaked out about. So she either saw something on TV... Damn you OPRAH! or got some mailer from AARP  because she has become obsessed with protecting her "identity" so no one steals all her money. She hasnt thrown anything away in months.  She was going to get a scredder but apparently looked at one that cost like $200 and she fuck that.

So her plan is that she is going to save all the crap up... really the dining table is a mass of envelopes and info packets... save all this shit up then take out to her sisters.  Since her sister lives out in the middle of nowhere and has no trash serivice they can burn shit and she is going to BURN IT!!!!!!!

I pointed out that she was paranoid kooky.

So dear readers, is my mother obessive compulsive?  Or am I the weird one her thinking its bizarre to burn your fucking mail.

what noom would say


Anyone can do an open thread (0.00 / 0)
I'll promote it as soon as I see it.

(oh, and your mother and mine should do lunch)


[ Parent ]
more purposeful contradictions (0.00 / 0)
TEHRAN - Iran will not suspend its sensitive high level enrichment in return for radioisotopes as offered in a letter by three world powers to the UN atomic watchdog, the foreign ministry said on Wednesday.

//

The three said they "recognise the need in Iran for medical radioisotopes" which are "available on the world market and could be obtained as a responsible, timely and cost effective alternative to the IAEA's proposal."

http://www.google.com/hostedne...

give em medical isotopes and they're still gonna enrich their uranium to 20 percent anyways. thatz what the dude said. yes they will continue to enrich to a higher grade. you know it...uh huh...what fer? oh right da bomb

they're all over the map. on purpose. bob and weave.  run out the clock.....


From the same article: (0.00 / 0)
Ahmadinejad indicated Tehran could suspend higher grade enrichment if world powers supplied it the required fuel for the reactor.

So you have contradictory signals, definitely.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
blistering IAEA report on Iran nuke program (4.00 / 1)
In unusually blunt language, an International Atomic Energy Agency report for the first time suggested Iran was actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability, throwing independent weight behind similar Western suspicions.

http://www.reuters.com/article...

read it and weep


Weed it and spin, you mean (4.00 / 1)
Cleerly, the IAEA is just another faction of the CIA, bought and paid for. The Iranians never lie, there motives are pure....they are good leftists, dont ya know?

And if Failreft says so, then make bank. the dude is never wrong about anything, especially when it comes to swallowing ahmadickies wad.


[ Parent ]
Juan Cole: IAEA now allows in dubious laptop crap (0.00 / 0)
Saturday, February 20, 2010 . . .

It appears that, the International Atomic Energy Agency is at least allowing for the possibility that documents allegedly found on a laptop some years ago --but discounted by the US Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency as of dubious provenance and incompatible with other intelligence gathered in Iran -- point to a nuclear weapons program that no one has been able to locate. Some close observers have concluded that the laptop documents are forgeries. A new IAEA report that declines to dismiss the alleged documents will certainly cause the war lobby in the United States to redouble its efforts to get up an attack on Iran.

Forged documents on the supposed purchase of yellowcake uranium by Iraq from Niger were used by George W. Bush to promote a war on Iraq. It was at that time the Intelligence and Research division of the Department of State that attempted to throw cold water on these "documents," but was ignored by the president. Then head of the IAEA, Mohammed Elbaradei, was able to show them false in one afternoon.

http://www.juancole.com/2010/0...

And Juan Cole is very strongly anti-Iranian regime.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
IOKIYO (0.00 / 0)
Really, 'oh the __ regime blah blah blah that we just happen to be threatening militarily and have completely surrounded, how intransigent of them to thrive in any sectors...but to be fair, some of the accusations are false'.

What about Niger, Honduras, Colombia, Egypt and on and on. Juan Cole's 'doubt' is merely the soft packing material for our new war. Any mealy mouthed preoccupation with Iran by the punditry is also their endorsement for apocalypse. You either call bullshit or you don't.



[ Parent ]
Juan Cole is a Dead Flower (0.00 / 0)
Juan Cole was not against the Iraq War. He's of the B'Hai faith and they hated Sadaam. Juan Cole in many ways backed the Iraq war.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

He's another of those guys....the one's that pretend to be rational but in reality support a lot of America's foreign adventures.

Michael Ledeen is the forgery King. Having been caught once and then suspected of the Niger forgeries and of course now he's pals with Peter Ackerman who funds the "leftist" Narco News and other adventures in flowery revolutions in other countries like Iran that turn into dead flowers for them as in the Ukraine recently.


[ Parent ]
Niger...I was talking about the military coup a few days ago, not yellowcake (0.00 / 0)
US seems to support, and the EU/African states do NOT. (though the only reason France doesn't is probably the Uranium mines they control there - opened up for business by the ousted leader)

Anyway there's hardly any real info in circulation.   Other than the usual regional clincher of having a 90+% muslim population...wait for the propaganda.

The coup leaders are a couple of "random" military officials who just also happened to serve in the UN forces together in the Congo. It seems like another case of a military unaligned with the leadership, acting on foreign commands. The Zelaya script is also being used - the president was trying to overthrow the constitution.

Coup O' The Month I guess.

Probably the French media would be the most (unwittingly)informative, but I haven't gone over it yet.


[ Parent ]
hilarious (0.00 / 0)
IAEA has independent info which they have uncovered themselves regarding Iran's nuke program, that's their position

but itz laughable that Cole claims noone can "locate" the nuke program when itz going on right in front of everyone's face , in broad daylight - what is the 20 enrichment business about if not about getting uranium ready for a nuke...of curse there's the matter of the clandestine enrichment plant buried deep inside a mountain specifically meant for uranium enrichment to weaponization levels which was recently discovered... and of curse there's the fact that iran has dispersed their weapons experiments, nuke labs here there and everywhere, underground, so it's pretty hard for the IAEA to sniff them out esp when they aren't allowed unfettered access,,,,,it's a shell game,
but I bet there's a lot more info that US, France et al are aware of but havn't chosen to go public with at this time. They prolly know the location of some of these weapons labs - there have been recent defections of top level Iranian scientists , so they perhaps have supplied info

but eye find it amusing that you foist Cole when convenient, yet completely ignore his cogent analysis of the stolen election. eye mean Cole's throwing the hard left a bone here, he doesn't want to alienate them completely, example number one fairleft, who goes running to him for any tidbit of info trying to cast doubt on the IAEA, however weaks it is


[ Parent ]
what independent info? They don't cite any, (0.00 / 0)
and the only 'evidence' ever presented of an Iranian nuclear weapons program is the fake bullshit on the laptop that was 'found' by the Israelis.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
haha!@ (0.00 / 0)

The IAEA seemed to be cautiously going public with concerns arising from a classified agency analysis leaked in part last year which concluded that Iran has already honed explosives expertise relevant to a workable nuclear weapon.

//

For several years, the IAEA has been investigating Western intelligence reports indicating Iran has coordinated efforts to process uranium, test explosives at high altitude and revamp a ballistic missile cone in a way suitable for a nuclear warhead.

In 2007, the United States issued an assessment saying Iran had halted such research in 2003 and probably not resumed it.

But its key Western allies believe Iran continued the program -- and the IAEA report offered independent support for that perception for the first time.

The information available to the agency is extensive ... broadly consistent and credible in terms of the technical detail, the time frame in which the activities were conducted and the people and organizations involved," the report said.

//

Iran had earmarked 1.95 tons of its LEU for enrichment up to 20 percent, it said, a significant escalation as further refinement to the weapons-grade threshold would need only around six months.

This quantity is far in excess of the (medical reactor's) needs, David Albright, head of the Institute for Science and International Security, said in an online commentary.

http://www.reuters.com/article...



[ Parent ]
They're citing the old Israeli laptop bullshit (0.00 / 0)
Now reinterpreted by the U.S.-obedient Amano. You've made my case, THANKS -- "a classified agency analysis leaked in part last year" -- there is no new information, the new 'concern' is over information collected in 2008 and earlier. This is reopening the old dispute between other intel agencies and Bush's, which said in 2007 that Iran was not doing nuclear weapons development.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
last year is 2009 (0.00 / 0)
yeah its funny that under Bush, the US cliamed Iran had halted its weapons program and yet the IAEA disagrees with that. So do many other countries.

''

49. Contrary to the relevant resolutions of the Board of Governors and the Security Council, Iran has also continued with the construction of the IR-40 reactor and related heavy water activities. The Agency has not been permitted to take samples of the heavy water which is stored at UCF, and has not been provided with access to the Heavy Water Production Plant.

http://www.cfr.org/publication...

Significant work on Fuel Fabrication lines at Esfahan:
Iran has installed or plans to install a surprising number of lines for the production of natural, depleted, and enriched uranium metal. The line for enriched uranium is declared as for material enriched up to 19.7 percent. These lines raise suspicions that Iran could use them to make metal components for weapons.

http://www.isis-online.org/upl...

Western powers fear Iran is trying to build nuclear bombs and that the long-range ballistic technology used to put satellites into orbit can also be used to launch warheads. Iran says its nuclear program is solely to generate electricity.

http://www.reuters.com/article...

but you ignore so much new info.

the discovered plant at Fardo which violated IAEA protocol

the lack of transparency WRT heavy water plant (above)

the current 20 percent enrichment.... and the production lines mentioned above

the scientists who recently defected....

Irans stalling over the transfer of uranium for fuel rods, nothing but a ruse

Irans' launching of satellites into space, technology which can be used to launch warheads

and of course Irans' refusal to answer any of the outstanding questions related to weaponization of their nuke program. They havn't met with the IAEA to discuss any of these questions. Why so secretive?


[ Parent ]
iran has stonewalled the IAEA (0.00 / 0)
The report also noted that Iran had stonewalled IAEA efforts to discuss issues related to nuclear weapons work since August 2008 and confirmed that Iran had enriched uranium to a level of 19.8 percent, which is a major step toward producing weapons-grade uranium, despite repeated U.N. Security Council resolutions demanding that they stop these and other nuclear activities.

hey Iran, whatcha hiding?


[ Parent ]
"For several years, the IAEA has been investigating Western intelligence reports indicating Iran . . ." (4.00 / 1)
Read: the IAEA has no new independent information of its own. NONE.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Pull those facts from your ass (0.00 / 0)
in another million years, they still won't be diamonds.

There's no controlling a modern country's development without military occupation. So these are the new lies of the geriatric bully.


[ Parent ]
so yer saying that (2.00 / 1)
building a nuke is the definition of what it means to be a modern country, and that itz the defining characteristic of what modern development means?

You're not a modern country unless you build a nuke?

Why has iran shut down google? Oh right, cuz e mails are encrypted making them hard to spy on by the gov't. But have no fear, a jad's supplying a gov't run email sevice! Easily accessed by state security!

Iran began blocking access to Gmail on Wednesday - a move intended to stifle the same Internet communications that made the "Twitter Revolution" possible. The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that the Iranian government would soon shut down Gmail in Iran altogether, and replace the popular email platform with a government-run service.

The move comes as anti-government protesters flooded the streets during celebrations for the 31st anniversary of the Islamic Republic. Last June, social networks such as Twitter and Facebook were used to organize rallies and to keep the outside world abreast of the violence in the streets of Tehran. By pulling the plug on Gmail, the Iran government eliminates one more communication outlet for anti-government forces.

But why is Iran gunning for Gmail first, and not Twitter? As John C. Abell of Portfolio.com points out, it's a matter of which service is easier for the Iranian government to monitor:

Gmail is the only major online e-mail service that uses HTTPS connections by default, which encrypts the data sent between a user's computer and Google's servers. That makes it very difficult for the government to spy on Gmail users e-mailing other Gmail users, though Gmail users e-mailing others could be overheard. Users of other online e-mail services are vulnerable to having the contents of their e-mails scanned by government firewalls

http://www.csmonitor.com/Innov...

Modern development to the mullahs means shutting down Google e mail because itz hard to spy on and replacing it with a transparent gov't e mail service. What a crock. Eye note that neither you nor fairleft commented on this story when eye first posted it. The hard left always ignores inconvenient facts.

Obama has offered all kinds of modern development - economic incentives, and all the modern technology which would come with that - economic integration with the world, but Iran wants a nuke instead. Their leadership pours all the oil money into their own pockets and into military/state security apparatus, and hand out a few crumbs to the people who run the state bureaucracy. Slaves.

Iran could modernize their oil/gas industry, grow their economy enormously, help the average iranian but the mullahs, Rev Guard and A jad won't do it. They're too corrupt ,too religiously radical and have their own designs on regional hegemony . Their mantra is "Export the Revolution."


[ Parent ]
Well then (4.50 / 2)
why not attack NK, China? Or any country where 90% of the pop. doesn't even have net access. Why the concern over Iran?

They're not building nukes. Yet. But why on earth should they be expected not to when they're being surrounded and threatened with exactly that?

Why don't we get to the heart of the 'argument', a deliberate mistranslation...justifying armageddon, for profit. An insanity. Of course false pretenses like these always seem to 'vanish from the page of history'. We're left wailing about the scary part of the periodic table. Calling 20% enrichment a 'step' towards weapons-grade is like calling a zygote a step to senescence.


If you want to genuinely fight against the proliferation of atomic weapons and weapons of mass destruction, you have to join Iran and help it so that it can show you the right way. Yes, atomic weapons and weapons of mass destruction are a serious threat. They have to be destroyed. The Iranian nation is the victim of chemical weapons and weapons of mass destruction.

However, the only way (to counter them) is to implement justice and suitable planning. It's clear that the measures which have been taken up until now to destroy atomic weapons have been ineffective. If they are interested in destroying these weapons and if they genuinely want the world to become a peaceful place, they must resort to rational and just methods.

Unplug from Pravda, noom. (Or the _____ Post)



[ Parent ]
really? (0.00 / 0)
Calling 20% enrichment a 'step' towards weapons-grade is like calling a zygote a step to senescence.

what do you know about it?  in fact the hard part of uranium enrichment is getting to 3.5 percent, the level needed for civilian power plants. the step to 20 percent is easier and the step to weapons grade simpler still....

Yes, depending on Iran's ultimate intentions. Iran now has enough LEU for 1-2 bombs if highly enriched. No one knows yet how much of this it plans to enrich further. But once at the 20 percent mark, Iran could advance to the 90 percent weapons-grade level in mere months since low-level enrichment is the most time-consuming and difficult stage of the process.

http://www.reuters.com/article...




[ Parent ]
It's as simple as that? (4.00 / 2)
OK. If Mr. Reuters sez so. I was speaking in more postulatory terms. The decision to enrich beyond universally accepted levels - used globally in modern technology - is none of our business...but it's a marked decision that they've yet to even contemplate taking, despite what the NNNNYYYYTTTT says.

Though they'd be smart to take it, with what shit our frothing suicidal empire talks 24/7.


[ Parent ]
And about this new schtick, (0.00 / 0)
condemning profit consolidation...

LOL.

...their own designs on regional hegemony.

ROTFLMAO.

This is all a joke destined to right itself, before long.


[ Parent ]
I'm once more befuddled by your boomer allusions (0.00 / 0)
but it surely must have something to do with doubt in your own myths...as usual.


[ Parent ]
eye'm just tryin' to find the bridge (4.00 / 2)
has anybody seen the bridge?

please

have you seen the bridge?

eye ain't seen the bridge

where's that confounded bridge?



[ Parent ]
Well thank god your motive was googleable (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
doesn't the USA have like several thousand nukes? (0.00 / 0)
And Iran can't have one or we'll declare war on them?

Fuck that shit.


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