Help End the War in Afghanistan!

Posted also at (4.00 / 1)

my left wing.

I think my essay finds a more sympathetic general audience here, but the general is much, much smaller.

Nonetheless, everyone, do what you can - add to what I have here.

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by: vox humana @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 00:15:21 AM CST

What? They're pro-fucking-war there now???? (0.00 / 0)

Good god MSOC, what have ye become?

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:04:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yup, but only when we really really really have to (0.00 / 0)

kill, when the natives' chosen leaders are just too icky.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 13:23:40 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Some people feel this may be (0.00 / 0)

a "good war." Others disagree. It's a discussion, but there are some people there who are in favor of military action.

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by: vox humana @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 16:00:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yeah; especially vs Palestinians (0.00 / 0)

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 18:30:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The problems in the country require radical and massive alienation (4.00 / 1)

from the powers that run this country and routinely ignore or at best throw pennies at most of us. The first necessary step for the authentic left (the authentic right is ahead of us, of course) is for it to break with the Demopublicans (which of course includes Obama) and flirt seriously with an alternative party in 2010 and an alternative candidate in 2012. Since, btw, our militarism and economic problems are set only to get worse and more frustrating for most Americans during the next year, it would be very nice if 2010 were not just another sold out to big money Republicans vs. sold out to big money Democrats year.

But, yes, in addition to that send a post card. It can't hurt, and what else can little me do?

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 09:52:51 AM CST

If I were to read your comment (0.00 / 0)

at face value, it would seem to imply "do nothing until the Summer of 2010." I don't think you mean that?

I would love to see many more parties, left and right, so that we would have to have more of a coalition government within our present system. It could be done (and I think we are indeed headed in that direction), but in a year?

Could effective parties and candidates really be found and run in that short a time? And really, must we simply accept the situation in Afghanistan in the meantime?

I know postcards don't do much. But they do do something.

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by: vox humana @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 16:09:37 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Start now moving away from the War Parties (0.00 / 0)

People need to start saying now that they will not vote for any candidate who has voted against a quick exit from Afghanistan (faggedabout 'no escalation': what a ridiculously pro-war 'anti-war' stance). People could also start now deciding to join and support 2010 antiwar and anti-imperialist parties and candidates.

There needs to be an identifiable and substantial bloc of voters who say they've had enough and won't be fear-mongered into voting for one of the War Parties in 2010 or 2012. This needs to be an up-front element in any postcard or other actions, now.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 09:50:32 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I hate to be pissy (3.00 / 1)

You all know how much I hate that, right? :)
BUT,

to make sure he knows that the majority of people want the US out of Afghanistan

I would say mission accomplished because the White House knows how to read an opinion poll.  Does anyone believe that Obama is a warmonger only because he is blissfully unaware that the wars are unpopular?  Pelosi said the Democrats would end the Iraq war back in 2006.  Obama ran on an anti-war platform.... though he did try to say that Afghanistan didn't count of course.

These people are well aware of public opinion.

Is there anything that can be done to influence them?  I don't think so.  US foreign policy is so fixed that it is simply off the table to democratic influences.  I doubt he would do anything different even if he was convinced he would lose re-election if he didn't do something (other than apply manipulation / manufacturing consent that is).  But of course he knows as well as we do that nobody who is anti-war would EVER vote against him on that basis.  (Or only a tiny number who'd vote against him anyway at this point).

Can anyone explain how these actions apply any pressure to Obama?

At best they are events aimed at convincing the people attending them to do something, such as witholding donations from Democrats or voting against them because of the war, and in that they will mostly fail because such people will always consider the Republicans worse and always vote for what they see as the lesser of two evils --- IE they don't care enough about war as an issue to stop them supporting Obama.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:03:40 PM CST

Better would be (5.00 / 2)

A campaign to tell people to QUIT sending donations to Democrats who RENEGED on their promises since 2006 to end the war and INSTEAD send that money to a charity supporting the VICTIMS of the DEMOCRATS' wars.

Of which off the top of my head UNICEF and the international land mines charity would be good choices as well as the Swedish Committee for Afghanistan and well honestly a number of UN charities.  I get the impression it is increasingly hard for NGOs to operate in Afghanistan due to the US war there.  It might be good to stick it to Obama with some charity operating in Hondoras too.

People love being told that it's moral to NOT give their money (to Democrats) in a recession so this should be an easy sell, even for Pwoggies who will inevitably vote D regardless.  I note though that various blogs are doing the same over disappointment over gay rights.  While a good cause it doens't have the immediacy of war nor the aspect of broken promises.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:12:37 PM CST

This is an excellent idea. (0.00 / 0)

Thank you.

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by: vox humana @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:15:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Swedish Committe for Afghanistan (0.00 / 0)

http://www.swedishcommittee.org/

They've been working in Afghanistan since 1982.  They seem to be stepping up resources while others are pulling out due to extreme violence.  They are the group the US recently attacked at one of their hospitals back in September if you recall that news item?

Coalition forces have violently entered SCA's Hospital in Shaniz, Wardak province. Rooms that were locked were forcefully entered and the doors of the malnutrition ward and the ultrasound ward were broken by force to gain entry. The soldiers also tied up four employees and two family members of patients at the hospital. SCA staffs as well as patients (even those in beds) were forced out of rooms/wards throughout the search.

The only issue is they don't seem to have any means to donate to them since they get funding through the Swedish government, the EU, the UN and so on.  

http://www.icbl.org/intro.php

I suggested the International Land Mine folks as Afghanistan is the most land-mined country in the world, or used to be and Kabul the most land-mined capital city.  It's a big problem over there.  The Taliban leadership held the distinction, and it is one, of being the world's most disabled government from Mullah Omar (blind in one eye from shrapnel) down.

I'm not sure if Afghanistan is still dead worst but undoubtedly very bad.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 14:36:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

NO money for Dems till NO U.S. wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (0.00 / 0)

Great idea, one I'm sure the nation's antiwar movement will enthusiastically embrace. ;-`

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 13:28:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Some of us did (0.00 / 0)

a long time ago.

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by: vox humana @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 16:00:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Who really sacrifices to protect our freedoms? (0.00 / 0)

One of the things that makes me sick about the "support our troops" bunch is telling me how much soldiers "sacrifice" to protect "our freedoms" when the exact opposite is true.

It strikes me a more positive approach might go over better (fairleft; I couldn't do this but maybe you could?)  

I suggest a diary on honouring people who REALLY sacrifice for our freedoms.  So who is that?

(1) black gentlemen who are retired now and were involved in the Civil rights battles
(2) ACLU lawyers and activists of similar groups who could be earning a lot more elsewhere
(3) the tiny number of politicians who publicly opposed anti-terrorism bills and funding of wars
(4) the tiny number of soldiers who refused to serve in Afghanistan and Iraq, risking prison time

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:41:43 PM CST

In my 'war criminals' diaries I always honor the kids who refuse to enlist, (0.00 / 0)

knowing the army is a way better deal materially than the minimum-wage future that a lot of young people likely are facing. That's the exact other side of the support the troops bullshit, which pwoggies think doesn't have a progressive downside. Well, it dishonors the folks who for the right reasons and at sometimes great personal cost didn't join the immoral imperial enterprise.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 13:33:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Progressive racism (0.00 / 0)

http://seminal.firedoglake.com...

Comment one.  Clearly a deeply racist attitude expressed naively, but will the author be attacked in the same way I was for criticising feminism on gender equality grounds?

We have been worring more about feeding the African people more than our own since I was a kid.

Africa doesn't seem to worry about that, and is more interested in their well off becomming more well off.

The place where life supposedly began, and much of it is still like it was when it began. Whose fault is that?

With all the riches that Africa posseses it has been plundered and used to make others in the world rich.

The why in that is that the African people don't do anything to help themselves. They will work for others, but won't take care of themselves.

They don't start and run plantations, dig mines, drill for oil, or manufacture goods on their own. If You think Africa is poor and starving, picture it if the other people in the world had left it on it's own. There would be no cities, big or small businesses, most of the Animals would have been killed off, and none of their minerals, gems, and oil would have been discovered.

They would be living as bush people starving even worse now than in the past because they would have used up all the contenent gave them.

They would be dying off from desease, and from over population.

The day the African people start making something of themselves, should be the day we start worring about them, not like we have for Centuries.

We keep sending aid over there, while our people get worse and worse off.

This comment more accurately describes the Australian aboriginals:

if the other people in the world had left it on it's own. There would be no cities, big or small businesses, most of the Animals would have been killed off, and none of their minerals, gems, and oil would have been discovered.

As readers of Guns, Germs and Steel know the elimination of large domestic mammals by primitive man may have played a role in restricting development in the New World where primitive man had to enter late on the scene and as a result may have easily exterminated large mammals that in Asia-Africa developed defences against humans, and were subsequently domesticated to great agricultural, industrial and military advantage.

There were however some small number of large cities in pre-Columbian Americas and it may have contained the largest city in the world at one point.  Africa is a whole 'nother story and had none of those problems.  There was no easy colonising of Africa as there was with the Americas and Australia.  Indeed it was a harder continent to add to an empire than India or Asia.

I think the author is of the older generation and perhaps her ideas about backwards Africa date from that time.  It's funny how the more genuinely primitive American aboriginals (Native Americans) are not seen as backwards in the same way.  Instead they get treated to the Hollywood-Hippie image of being peace-loving environmentalists.  On the contrary domestic empires of considerable militancy and size were established on both continents.  As in Europe war was more or less continuous and seems to have been a human universal prior to the success of the UN in recent decades.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 13:47:54 PM CST

So far three hours (0.00 / 0)

and nobody has even contested that racist heap of crap, posted by a popular commentator and one of the "sisters" that run people off that board.

Shit.  That is some racist crap there.  I mean that sort of stuff you used to see twenty years ago but it reads more like some 18th or 19th century imperialist justifying slavery and/or the White Man's Burden.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:41:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Wow. That's pretty unbelievable. (0.00 / 0)

A lot of latent racism has become more evident of late, I think.

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by: vox humana @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 16:04:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I know (0.00 / 0)

But as with the feminist hate comments all eyes not on the lone nutcase but on how the others react to it.

One reply so far which just ignores the racism in the comment even though it replies to it.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 18:35:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Wow (3.50 / 2)

She's double down with her racism now.  After a little over eight hours someone actually posted something saying she was wrong about Africa (although it certainly doesn't call her drivel racist) and her reply is:

The whole continent of Africa is a disgrace to the world and mankind, and I don't care what You think.

They were the first people they should be the greatest society. Time has been on their side.

You proved my point Yourself by saying by saying things are still held by the colonial powers. Had it not been for the colonial powers, they would still be bushman.

The one person to call her on it said,

"Your post is incredibly misinformed and I'm surprised no else called you out on it."

Well of course "someone" did but that "someone" has been banned and that's no coincidence I am thinking.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 00:13:12 AM CST

[ Parent ]

This week dumbass Greenwald realises what I did immediately (4.00 / 1)

But only because it was spelled out for him by the Obama regime itself:

Holder repeatedly assured Senators that the administration would continue to imprison 9/11 defendants even in the very unlikely case that they were acquitted, citing what they previously suggested was their Orwellian authority of so-called "post-acquittal detention powers."  Is there any better definition of a "show trial" than one in which the defendant has no chance of ever being released even if acquitted, because the Government will simply thereafter assert the power to hold him indefinitely without charges?

http://www.salon.com/news/opin...

Well fucking "Duh".  He still hasn't realised the other aspects that make the trial a clear show trial.  Well at least he'll shut the fuck up about praising Obama for his commitment to the law now ... for another five seconds.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 14:20:53 PM CST

The U.S. not civilized enough to be trusted with the 9/11 cases (0.00 / 0)

We're one of those 'banana republics' with a hopelessly corrupt and biased judicial culture. Get the noose ready, here's the hangin' judge!

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 14:54:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The bragging about conviction rates of alleged terrorists (0.00 / 0)

reminds me of the feminist talk about convictions of men accused of gender related crimes.  For example feminists talk about how bad it is to let "acquitted rapists go free" and how the conviction rate "of rapists" needs to be increased.  As a result of campaigning on this, many of the rules of evidence and justice were altered to "help" gain convictions of men accused of the crime that has the highest false accusation rate of any.... (about 50% vs 2% for ordinary crimes) except perhaps now we might say "terrorism" has an even higher false accusation rate, if anyone cared to try and calculate it.

I continue to believe the attacks made upon civil liberties and the justice system spearheaded by feminists in pursuit of their hatred of men and their "victimry" (a new word coined by Stephen Colbert last night), blazed the path for anti-terrorism laws and further attacks on civil rights.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:49:55 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Many phenomena of the 80s blazed the path (0.00 / 0)

The satanic cult and recovered memory of sexual abuse hysteria, for example. Tawana Bradley. All sorts of prosecutorial and similar madness that was politically incorrect to oppose, wouldn't wanna be branded a racist/sexist, so nobody of importance opposed it. Politicians learned that careers could be built on paranoid hysteria and false accusation.

Tawana Bradley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

satanic ritual abuse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

recovered memory: https://webfiles.uci.edu/eloft... ((pdf))

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 16:10:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Don't all three of those things (0.00 / 0)

target men?

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 18:32:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

In general, yes, but there are many female victims too (0.00 / 0)

Owners of day cares, foster moms, and so on.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 09:52:45 AM CST

[ Parent ]

The 'pwoggie' argument in favor of moving 'terrorist' cases to federal courts (0.00 / 0)

includes "they get 95% conviction rates on those types of cases." (Sorry if I'm repeating yourself.)

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 09:54:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

It's as if they were winking and saying (0.00 / 0)

We can put on a better show-trial than the Republicans!

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 10:34:59 AM CST

[ Parent ]

"It's Show Trial Time!" (4.00 / 1)

Alexander Cockburn gets in the spirit. What an ugly mental state this country and its people are in right now. The U.S. really needs to get itself into some sort of halfway home for sociopaths.

http://counterpunch.org/cockbu...

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 16:54:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The joke which is US justice at Guantanamo (0.00 / 0)

http://seminal.firedoglake.com...

pretty funny especially the punch line by the author about how he ought to get a "fair trial" in a civil court, hahaha.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 14:51:04 PM CST

It's like watching a crappy magic trick in a room full of pot heads (4.00 / 1)

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com...

This article is by Digby but it could be any of them.  Watch the pretty Public Option, but for anyone paying any attention we all plainly saw the magician pocket the real PO in his hand and then move it under the table.  Hell they did too.  We know they did because they mentioned it but now they forgot all that and it's ooooh what's the magician doing now?

How can these people be so stupid?  How can anyone else read them and not realise how stupid they are?

Well of course it greatly helps that if you ever try to point out the emperor has no clothes you get banned.

Sadly they are not pot heads and not that stupid and this is no magic trick.  What they are is complicit.  The good news is that that gives the few of us who aren't gullible loyalists an opportunity to really do some good in the world simply by shining a light on their complicity.  Digby is complicit here.  She is deliberately talking up the public option not because it is genuinely a good bill but because she's part of the collusion at this point to get the Democrats a "win" even if it means screwing the American people again.  Whether her motivations are for the best of intentions or not I can't say and don't much care; results the same.

You know every now and then I hear about how great this guy Arthur Silber is although I have never seen it.  Sure he talks a good talk and makes the right noises and is better at that than most but now I have it figured out.  I see him constantly critical of the powers that be but never of the cogs in the system.

That's great as far as it goes but the problem is we can't do jack shit about the powers that be.  Someone like Digby or Greenwald can and should be shamed into correcting their lies and collusion when and if they do that.  That's a manageable goal we can attain, just as they (Greenwald at least) seem to feel it is a manageable goal for them to shame and criticise the more corporate and more well read monied pundits closer to power than they are.

Similarly nobody here has the power to shame the president or the secretary of defence but they do have the power to shame an individual soldier.  

the success of health care reform is coming down to the wire

The truth is the reform was defeated months ago in secret meetings between president Obama and the health insurance and pharmaceutical industry leaders.  And in that respect the timing really is a lot like a magic trick but I think we're all being played as the patsies by folks like Digby.  

Shame on you Digby, for lying to your readers.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 08:28:58 AM CST

it doesn't help (0.00 / 0)

that Silber's lead article currently is a pathological nutcase feminist diary.  Yeah like we got nothing better to do than make up stupid shitty lies to slam men with.  Terrific.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 08:31:51 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Obama will be the most warlike president in history. He isn't sending anybody home...he's sending them away (0.00 / 0)

Obama has already decided to send 40.000 more + troops ....after" very serious considerations and demands from the "generals" that they show they have at least a 5 year plan to rid Afghanistan of villiagers....I mean terrorists.

Shortly after the health care bill is passed or close to being passed you will hear about the troop increase. and the propaganda on how Obama was very thourough, demanding and precise in taking his time to make sure the military had a proper plan....It's all bullshit.

Obama is Pro war...and may be the most war like president in history.

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by: Stu Piddy @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 21:01:59 PM CST

Hard to beat Teddy Rosevelt I think (0.00 / 0)

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 21:32:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Byron ...what are you talking about? (0.00 / 0)

Teddy Roosevelt ...I don't understand....he is a mythical character as far as war goes....He was never involved in any major war...a ....The Spanish American war was nothing compared to Iraq, Afghanistan going on now for years and future wars seemingly readied all over South America....and Roosevelt wasn't president then,,,

There werent' any wars he was involved in as far as I know as president

As  

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by: Stu Piddy @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 13:44:03 PM CST

[ Parent ]

He was a war mongering racist asshole (4.00 / 1)

He tried to start a war with the British even.

As for the Spanish American war not being like Iraq I think you'll find that it was actually a whole lot like Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

200,000-1,500,000 dead compares to Wikipedia's idea of the Ieaq war casualties is more like 30,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...

Both a little on the "conservative" side.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

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by: DavidByron @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 16:10:48 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Roosevelt (0.00 / 0)

He fought in Cuba...I mean that's what he's know for....not in the Phillipines...and he wasn't the president. The Spanish American war is most often associated with Cuba, I think it began there and led to the Phillipines.

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by: Stu Piddy @ Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 12:11:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You're right, & the war was over by the time Teddy became President (0.00 / 0)

The massacre/war against the Philippines is on McKinley's fault.

Not that I'm the official referee of this site or anything . . . .

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

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by: fairleft @ Mon Nov 23, 2009 at 11:29:34 AM CST

[ Parent ]