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"The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting"

by: Laura

Sat Sep 19, 2009 at 16:37:03 PM EDT


I've lost count the number of times these past years I've seen Zio-bloggers spin the Sabra & Shatila massacre, where thousands of unarmed Palestinian refugees(and some Lebanese) died, into anti-Palestinian propaganda Gold. The technique of burying the backstory and relying on the genuine disinterest of the US populace usually works like a charm. Great post from Richard Seymour today, near its anniversary.

http://leninology.blogspot.com...

Long before Sabra and Shatila, the earliest targets of the war included refugee camps such as Rashidiyeh, which was reduced to rubble. Its residents fled or were killed, and those who were caught were rounded up and taken to a nearby beach to watch the destruction. All males of teenage years and older were blindfolded, handcuffed, and taken away. And they were not heard from again. Again, the Ain el-Hilweh refugee camp was largely flattened by bombing, and its mosque bulldozed afterwards. Approximately 100 mangled bodies were found under the mosques ruins. Hospitals were destroyed, orphanages flattened by cluster and phosphorus bombs, a school in Sidon was destroyed with 300 inside killed and, with ruthless efficiency, the Israeli army blew housing blocks and apartments to craters, if they suspected that there might be PLO activists inside. Hundreds of thousands of refugees - mostly women and children, since males were more robustly dealt with - were wandering aimlessly through Lebanon's carnage, starving and out of their minds with terror, before Sabra and Shatila. And all the while, incidentally, liberal and left-wing figures from the United States were taking IDF tours of southern Lebanon, cheering on the bloodshed. Jane Fonda, who had funded the Viet Cong, found herself conscripted to Israel's army of overseas cheerleaders, as did Tom Hayden, the former Sixties radical. Michael Walzer's verdict can be summarised in the simple phrase: "just war".

Laura :: "The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting"
In September 1982, a month after Israel's demolition of the PLO had been consecrated, the IDF sealed off the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp. On Thursday 16 September 1982, truckloads of Phalangist and Haddad troops entered the camp from behind IDF lines. The Phalangists selected for the attack were drawn from the most extreme elements of the militia, while the Haddad troops were more or less direct auxiliaries of the Israeli army. They killed and killed for days. At night, they killed by they light of flares, methodically massacring the inhabitants, scooping them up with bulldozers and burying them under the rubble. Those bodies which could not be buried were taken away in trucks. On Friday 17 September, the Israeli chief of staff and met with the Phalangist high command, commended their hard work, and offered them a truck with IDF markings so that they might better do their work. They were given another 12 hours in the camp to finish their work, which they duly completed by 5am on Saturday 18 September. After the massacre was completed, journalists began to arrive on the scene. Robert Fisk was one of them, and reported:

"What we found inside the Palestinian Chatila camp at ten o'clock on the morning of 18th September 1982 did not quite beggar description, although it would have been easier to re-tell in the cold prose of a medical examination ... there were women lying in houses with their skirts torn up to their waists and their legs wide apart, children with their throats cut, rows of young men shot in the back after being lined up at an execution wall. There were babies - blackened babies because they had been slaughtered more than 24 hours earlier and their small bodies were already in a state of decomposition - tossed into the rubbish heaps alongside discarded US army ration tins, Israeli army medical equipment and empty bottles of whisky ... Down a laneway to our right, no more than 50 yards from the entrance, there lay a pile of corpses. There were more than a dozen of them, young men whose arms and legs had been wrapped around each other in the agony of death. All had been shot at point-blank range through the cheek, the bullet tearing away a line of flesh up to the ear and entering the brain. Some had vivid crimson or black scars down the left side of their throats. One had been castrated, his trousers torn open and a settlement of flies throbbing over his torn intestines.

"The eyes of these young men were all open. The youngest was only 12 or 13 years old ... On the other side of the main road, up a track through the debris, we found the bodies of five women and several children. The women were middle-aged and their corpses lay draped over a pile of rubble. One lay on her back, her dress torn open and the head of a little girl emerging from behind her. The girl had short, dark curly hair, her eyes were staring at us and there was a frown on her face. She was dead ... One of the women also held a tiny baby to her body. The bullet that had passed through her breast had killed the baby too. Someone had slit open the woman's stomach, cutting sideways and then upwards, perhaps trying to kill her unborn child. Her eyes were wide open, her dark face frozen in horror." (Robert Fisk, Pity The Nation: Lebanon At War, Oxford University Press, 1992).

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Those children would be my (and Lenin's)age by now (5.00 / 2)


Thanks for covering this, Laura (3.00 / 1)
Reality isn't pretty.

[ Parent ]
Shimon Peres, to a visiting delegation of British Labor Friends Of Israel on Thursday (5.00 / 1)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S...

Acutely conscious that Israel's Arab population considers itself to be the victim of discrimination, Peres made the point that the Arabs would live better if they had fewer children. Parents of ten or more children cannot necessarily give them the education they deserve. Cutting down on the Arab birth rate, he suggested, would raise the standard of living of each Arab family, and would make education for all the children in each family much more affordable.


Israeli infiltration and manipulation of the U.S. Government (3.00 / 1)
I remember the day when I read the headlines about the massacre. It's always stuck out in my mind.

Ariel Sharon was blamed as being the mastermind. He brought together disparate elements and created a situation in which the massacre could be made possible.

Hmmm.

I can't help but thinking that there is a real possiblitiy...and there is circumstantial evidence that suggests Israel in conjunction with American neo cons created the situation whereby 911 was made possible.

Certainly Israel has infiltrated very deeply the American government. We have an Israeli citizen Rahm Emmanuel as Obama's chief of staff, the Israeli behind the Chrisitan/Muslim and Sibel Edmonds has claimed that Turkey representing Israeli interests (They have a lot in common strategically) have bribed Dennis Hastert, Roy Blount and many others and even ensnared my congressman Jan Schakowsky through extortion. Her voting record has become conservative in a lot of ways, voting to fund the war and backing off investigating Blackwater.

Sibel Edmonds is a serious person. She's not a fringe whistelblower. She's taken seriously by all parties

Blackwater and Israel are tight as a fist.  


I'd be careful about backing Sibel Edmonds (0.00 / 0)
She's been spreading crazy smear allegations against Jan Schakowsky. She has also become an asset for the discredited man behind the BradBlog curtain, Speedway Bomber Brett Kimberlin.    

http://davefromqueens2.blogspo...
http://allaircraftarenotinvolv...


[ Parent ]
Nice picture of slinkerwink at dKos (0.00 / 0)
(I think there was also meant to be a political message in the diary somewhere).

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


Sorry Laura (0.00 / 0)
but this stuff is important to some people

http://www.democraticundergrou...

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


[ Parent ]
* No worries mate * (0.00 / 0)
Haha hows that for a brit lipshit?

I never even knew slinkerwink was female. I'm certainly in the minority, judging from those pole options.


[ Parent ]
It's more Australian (0.00 / 0)
In fact, completely Australian.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
Now vox humana'll be reluctant to visit diaries by Laura (4.00 / 1)
To me, sometimes what the imperial policy of the US and its Middle Eastern arm looks like and sounds like is the whole point of resisting it.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

Then why aren't you and Laura, not to mention Stu and Byron, "resisting"? (3.00 / 2)
My guess is that Vox is doing more to further the "cause" you all blather on about, as well as several additional important social causes that never seem to bother you at all (prison reform, minority rights) or are actively opposing (illegal immigrants) then all of us put together....across the entire Left Behindist whiteysphere.

But thanks for the wreck on my latest dairy...I did post it for you too, BTW.

I lied to Revisionist.

Be sure to read the County Jail link. You can see that those hard LA cases are my direct descendents.....

[;o)  


[ Parent ]
OK maybe "actively" opposing is a bit strong...how about opposing via blather? (0.00 / 0)
[;o)

[ Parent ]
Now you got it whineyspherean (3.00 / 1)
I think my diaries are a form of news distribution, microscopically small-scale but that's the whiney almost useless nature of resistance by individuals. You're probly right about vox humana being more active in other forms of resistance than micro-news and comment; he/she likely is doing that as part of a large institution's peace work.

From that you get a large scale which is good, but debilitating inaccuracies creep into your bland satisfy-everyone-even-the-warmongers organizational stance. Like, for example, favoring mass immigration when there's 10+% unemployment, or pretending there's some jobs Americans don't like to do. Or pretending showing pix like in Laura's diaries is unethical.

But I'm getting off-topic; more peacework by many of us including me is needed, especially leading up to the October 16 anniversary of our Afghanistan invasion. Everyone except on myleftwing feels strong momentum for bringing the troops home. Need to work to make that positive vibe show up big time on the streets on October 16  (or is it October 17, can't remember).

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
If it's purely for "news distribution" purposes.... (1.00 / 1)
then why so reluctant to cross-post and spread the word?

It seems that the "good work" people do trying to raise awareness has more to do with that voiced awareness being attached to "he which brought it forth" then it is about educating the public about the events you write about.

Why not crosspost to FSZ, or MLW, or Prrogressive Independence, or Docudharma so more people can see? Not just one story here and there but all?

The reason is due to your "personal" principles, for reasons that only matter to you you feel you need to give or take away your "news" because they're not worthy of your posting there.

You're not news, you're "exclusive commentary" at best, we all are, some (like me) not by choice.

Long way down from such a high horse, feel free to slide down to the rest of us sometime.

Fuck.


[ Parent ]
You're right, I should cross-post at your place (0.00 / 0)
I pretty much always cross-post at MLW, mydd, and thewildwildleft. And even at openleft, which is neither, but no one ever comments there.

Anyway, I have nothing much to say right now, except about donkeytale (and even that is barely anything). I'm actually pretty optimistic right now about the Middle East and Obama's foreign policy in general. Not setting up the missile bases in Eastern Europe, seemingly one surge was enough for Afghanistan, plus general softening on the 'attack Iran' concept is all good news.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Oh well I feel much better now..... (0.00 / 0)
but before you start skipping through flowery fields I would like to bring your attention to the domestic front where people are jobless with no money and still don't have the civil rights shredded by the Bush Administration back.

That is, if you're not too busy.

Fuck.


[ Parent ]
Sure, rilly should be blogging/whining on all of domestic and foreign policy (0.00 / 0)
all the time.

Last couple weeks I happened to be focused on the potential surge in Afghanistan, which looks like it ain't happening. And the attack on Iran or overthrow of that regime, neither of which Israel seems able to make happen. And the U.S. missile bases, canceled.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Iran attack scuppered by recession (0.00 / 0)
since an attack would spike the price of oil

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
This economizing & realpolitik is bad for the military-industrial complex (0.00 / 0)
which needs wars and enemies, constantly.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Yeah yur off---nowhere did I ever say posting the pix is unethical, bad wrong immoral... (4.00 / 1)
in fact I said many times I enjoy it, personally. See, if you can't accurately perceive and state yur perceptions, then you can't "distribute the news." Pyrrhiod. Your inability to discern truth from what yu need to believe or state discredits you from the get go.

My point, which you staedfastly misread, is that posting the pix, as well as your "news distribution" is meaningless. Inactivism. Photoshopping. Take the pix then publish them and you have something going. Report the news from the front or at least from the VA Hospital and you mite have something going. Otherwise, dude, stop kidding yurself. Its nauseating to watch you pimp such miniscularity as if it were important and meaningfuul.

Everyone, including yourleftwing, feels like bringing the troops home. But not that strong. The troops themselves havent mutineed, by and large they are believers. A demonstration here or there by people who have no life/death stake will not move the momentum. The minds on both sides are already made up, and those in the middeul dont care a crap about the reality which you cannot even begin to portray (horrors of war) effectively, because you and they and we are not there, not invested enough to assimilate those horrors.

The war will wind down on its own because of more mundane realities, economics mainly, and a lack of discernable progress in battle which goes hand in hand with COST. Cost benefit analysis. Pyrrhiod. Thats what Amerikkkan drones relate to.

Your sentiments are good and pure, shure, but so what? So are everybodys, at least as much as yours. Surface only, Dont kid yurself. You have no skin in the game and neither do the peeps yur preaching too.


[ Parent ]
I was referring to vox humana, who has said it's unethical to show the pix (2.50 / 2)
the ones where the relatives haven't given permission for the pix to be shown publicly. Now, are you vox humana? If not, slow down.

Antiwar demonstrations increase pressure to make the right, peace-oriented decisions, whether they're in fact successful we never know. Maybe that means Obama will not escalate, as his head general is right now calling for him to do. There may be decisions like that in the balance over the next few months. Maybe Obama escalates less than he would've without antiwar pressure. Maybe he's moderately sensitive to being perceived as a right-winger hawk and antiwar protests focused on his assholery make him do a little or more of the right thing. Maybe Senators facing primary challenges from the left put themselves on the peace side of this issue. You don't know, neither do I, we're dealing with probabilities as usual.

Yes, economics and realpolitik are having a positive effect, as I noted in a comment above to Jack Smirking, but the military-industrial complex will have a very very hard time being stripped of enemies. It and its politicians know what that means, war budget cuts.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Oh, gee thanks for that fair and balanced insight. I needed more mush for breakfast (5.00 / 1)
The problem with "antiwar demonstrations" in this case, as in the Bush era is that they have zero impact. No one really cares. Sorry. The level of intensity just isnt there because of the lack of necessity. You wouldnt know this because you lack historical perspective. Born in 1980 you will die in 1980. If obama turns against the war it will be because he makes a cost benefit analysis of the results. He's smart and unemotional.

And the current results are that Al Qaeda or whomever is being fingered often enough by the locals and shot up enuff in Afghan, Pakastan (like that misp.) and Somalia to keep the beneficiality going. Whether you or I agree with the cost or the benefit is irrelevant.

Obama is popular. He's got no worries. His reelection prospects look great, given the (lack of)competition. Ditto the Senators. Running from the left? Yeah that works....in NY, Cali, Mass, NJ and all the usual places. So what? Doesnt work really. St. Sheehan in SF? Of course its probabilities, the only think certain is the dumb self certainty of the fool.  


[ Parent ]
One of the costs will be lower turnout by the left (0.00 / 0)
Which did in Carter way back in 1980. Cost-benefit analysis, that's what I'm talking about.

You sure are certain about antiwar activity having no effect at all on Obama.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Probable not certain, my prediction, but under the current circumstances, ie Antiwar activity being akin to (0.00 / 0)
going to a ball game waving a few signs, chanting a few cheers and then going home, say once every six month s or so? Nope, wont move the pile an inch. My prediction.

See below for example of what mite effectively constitute some game changinging maneuvers in Obama's mind.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, the farleft will stay home and let Palin win? Hahaha. THAT would serve you "right" (0.00 / 0)
Yur historical perspective, as always, totally off.

Carter lost far more than the left. Did he win a single state? He was never a left candidate anyway. Even in 1976, he won in the center. He lost the center in 1980. Reagan, formerly a denizen of farrighty fringe, gained legitimacy in the center, mainly because OF the bankrupted ideological liberalism that was perceived to have led to the POOR economy of the mid-late 1970s. The costs of Vietnam, OPEC, disaster of wage price controls (Nixon, but as you say he was liberal in this regard) all pinned on eastern liberal establishment. In other words Carter lost because Reagan pinned him to failed policies of the Left. Iran Hostage situation also a visceral factor which pinned him to the left (defeatists militarily). Brilliant political manipulations on part of Reagans campaign. Unethical too, but there you go.

Obama will win or looose on the economy. If the economy rebounds, unemployment falls then no probs. If not, but as long as the public identifies all these problems (correctly) with failed conservative policies, he will win and the demotards will remain in control. Those are the probabilities.

War just isnt an issue here, just as it wasnt with Reagan/Carter.


[ Parent ]
You bought the right-wing take on the 70s (3.00 / 2)
The 70s economy was a totally normal withdrawal from the boom times of Vietnam war spending and then there was the dinosaur stupidity of the car companies and the unexpected oil price rise, but the right-wing take successfully pushed was that the 70s economy was a too much government nightmare. (By the way, the wage-price controls happened before Carter and had nothing to do with the success of Reagan's campaign.) The fact is that the 1980 Carter had alienated the traditional (New Deal/Great Society) left, especially the labor unions, so much that Kennedy ran against him, and never 'embraced' him (famous Convention photo here), and one true way to understand Carter's loss is that that 3-5-7% of the vote that sat on their hands gave the election to Reagan.

And don't forget Carter backing the Shah and letting him and his family escape to the U.S. was another right-wing move that alienated a few critical percentage points of the left. Carter's was trying to triangulate between the left and right -- he greatly boosted the war budget in his last couple of years for another example of rightie behavior -- and there weren't hardly any votes there in 1980.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
I bought nothing except the truth. The truth was the economy was in a shambles (5.00 / 1)
and the center shifted from Carter in 76 to Reagan in 80.

I bought nothing. I voted for Brown in the primary and Carter in the election. Had more than my fill of Reagan for two terms in California. But see, I was around then voting then, so I know that you speak out yur ass.

This same shift occurs everytime the power shifts between ideologies and/or parties. EVEry time. Often with 3rd party candidates involved (Wallace, Anderson, Perot, Nadir in recent times) .The facts are in the wikipedia. The left shifted to Anderson, if they shifted anywhere and only represented 18% OF THE ELECTORATE anyway. The 3-5-7% (nice precision there) who you say "sat on their hands" didnt matter.  Facts are facts, fairrytale left. You can dissemble all day long but you are wrong.

But really, what you are saying then is you agree that Reagan was a better alternative then Carter?

Hmmmm.

And Byron says Palin is a better alternative than Obama?

Hmmmmmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmm

OK, "lefties" lets play Godwin Gotcha!

Therefore, Hitler was a better alternative than von Hindenburg too.

We can play these games all day long, loooosers. But I'lllet you play with yourselves



[ Parent ]
The Oil Price Rise (4.00 / 1)
wasn't unexpected.  Arab countries were using what leverage they had to bring world attention to the Occupied Palestinian Territories after the '67 war.  The various OPEC leaders may have had additional reasons of their own.  But the American public didn't hear the Palestinian angle from the MSM.  All we got was that Arabs were selfish and were trying to ruin our economy and our way of life.

[ Parent ]
I rather like Palin as a candidate (1.00 / 1)
She's clearly the candidate most likely to screw over the corporations as she has her own base independent of them and has a record opposing big oil, sorta.  She's the most socialist of all the candidates because of her Alaska experience -- the entire state is essentially one big federal program.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
Historical perspective...get some loooser, and dont disavow it simply because (0.00 / 0)
it fails to match your misconceived biases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

I backed Jerry Brown in 1976 and 1980. He was the candidate of the left and fairly viable, racking up several primary wins in 76 as I recall.

John Anderson was the most viable lefty candidate in 1980.


[ Parent ]
Besides, Vox point wasnt so much that the pix unethical, altho he mentioned the ethics bothered him, (3.00 / 2)
but also that its ineffective. You simply cant comprehend and respond responsibly to a anything less than a simplistic, self hijacked argument can you? This is why no one outside Laura takes you seriously. You speaketh with forked tongue (actually even he seems to have split) ad nauseum, changing the subject whenever you strike out, which is every at bat.

The power of the image in war is like the image of air power in war. And I/P is war, bet on it.

Everyone makes a big deal about imagery in retrospect because its so obvious and sexy, but the reality is 100% overblown.

You post war porn primarily to self aggrandize. Like Laura. Its a weak attempt to cover for lack of any coherent rhetorical schtick.

All wars, as well as the anti-war wars, are won on the ground by the infantry. March into the demonstration and assault the PTB, make yourselves into hamburger, snap some pix of each other and circulate those, then we'll talk. All else is blah blah blog. Signifying nada.

In the case of the antiwar, there is no infantry. Pyrrhiod. Just a buncha goofs on holiday trying to self righteously connect with the sixties, then rushing home to blog about it.

And failing tomove the pile a half inch in the process.


[ Parent ]
Again with your 100% statements: (0.00 / 0)
"All wars, as well as the anti-war wars, are won on the ground by the infantry."

Imagery has an impact, again small (who ever denied that?), but added to organizing and demonstrations, political conditions we can't predict, economic conditions, battle field conditions, 'the will to fight' (which can be affected by political and moral input), and so on you get an overall impact that may be changing elite political decisions now, may have changed things back in Vietnam days. Who knows? You do your very tiny bit, or not if you're too convinced it is definitely nothing at all.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
AP: Mistranslating Ahmedinejad not enough; must wholly fabricate entire sentences (4.00 / 1)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

The Associated Press went on to say they all fuck their mothers.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


Juan Cole getting it wrong (4.00 / 1)
http://www.juancole.com/2009/0...

Read the posts at 8:38 by Navid, and the next one after that. It's great that Cole allows himself to be debunked by the posters.

My impression, though, is that Ahmadinejad is not very bright in the sense that he clearly doesn't understand that he doesn't understand the 500 years of Western colonial history well enough to be commenting on it. He should focus on present-day injustices based on modern history, instead of getting bogged down in 100 year old or older questions and controversies.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Wow, Cole is a total racist ass isn't he? (3.50 / 2)
He really hates black people.  Look at that part where he says they should bring back slavery.  And calling Obama a "lazy nigger" too.

At least that's what he said if employ the same "translation" technique Cole uses on Ahmedinejad.  It looks like he's been lent on following his famous rebuttal of the Ahmedinejad wipe them off the map remark.

Professor Cole:  Ahmedinejad said the word "salt".  Clearly that means he doubts the Holocaust!  Clearly!  What a scum bag anti-Semite he is.

Pathetic lying asshole (Cole I mean).

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


[ Parent ]
Only a minority at Lenin's are ripping into Cole (4.00 / 1)
Found the speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=t...player_embedded

That's part two of five. It's all up on Youtube. I've only listened to part 1 and part 2. The talked up section happens at around 5:10-6:00. It is a simultaneous live broadcast translation to English, and consequently imperfect.

As usual, Ahmadinejad maintains ambiguous-to-the-point-of-being-inflammatory tone with regards to the Holocaust.

I'm not a great farsi-to-english resource, but this is what I took out of it:

'The pretext for the establishment of the zionist state is a lie and a corruption. It leans on an illegal claim a ???????1 claim. The claim is invalid and it's grounding is invalid. The occupation of palestine has nothing to do with the issue of the Holocaust. Both the claim is corrupt and it's ??bakcing??2 is corrupt. [also] The accomplices and supporters3 are corrupt, they are the ones who have been plundering the world for the past 500 years. If we are happy with their claims, then we must first put them all on trial and punish them. Today both the claim is corrupt and the solution, which is the occupation of another land is a big corruption"

1It's difficult to hear A-n over the translator. I think the word hear sounds like 'Afsorder' which means 'sorry'=> a 'sorry claim', but I can't tell(doesn't sound right). Press TV translated it as 'It has it's basis on an undocumented claim, a mythological claim', the translation of 'geyr-e-ganouni' to 'undocumented' is certainly wrong, I can't hear the word they translated as 'mythological'

2Press tv translated this as 'pretext'. I think the word is 'zemanat' but i'm not sure how to translate it.(guarntee?)

3According to Juan Cole says this word(hami) should be translated as protectors.

Again, please don't take anything I write about these translations as authoritative

The first part of the speech talks about Zionism as an extension of the European powers' occupation of foreign nations. He talks about the Zionist project being set up under the influence of these powers in order to control the region. The speech is much more anti European than anything else, he doesn't blame European imperialism on Zionists as Juan Cole claims, but rather the exact opposite-he blames European powers for Zionoism. He claims that on the one hand they(historically) promote anti-semitism domestically and on the other hand pave the way for zionist crimes internationally, and that this is a method by which they aim to control the resources of the region.
It's a theme he maintains throughout the firs two parts of his speech(don't have time to watch the rest I don't have time to watch the rest).

The section of his speech begins with 'But they have claimed these people need an independent land, but if we accept this logic and grant this right to all nations......' and he goes on to talk about how American Indians certainly would need an independent land partitioned from the US, as they have suffered horribly at the hands of the US. And that Europe would have to be divided into 72 different nations, and that Russia as well would have have to be dismantled, ect.. This leads into the section of the speech I quoted above. It's clear to me that the 'corrupt claim' he is talking about above is the claim that 'these people need their own independent land', you don't even need Farsi to understand that much.

The interesting question though is why all these 'expert' pundits ignore the obvious and go for the hatchet job instead, and weather you can trust them to talk honestly about other Iran developments. Juan Cole's screed was absolutely ridiculous.
masoud | 21 Sep, 08:46 | #

'The pretext for establishing the Zionist regime is a lie; a lie which relies on an unreliable claim, a mythical claim, and the occupation of Palestine has nothing to do with the Holocaust.'

Don't the semantics of this statement provide a prima facie case that the Holocaust is real (with, given his other statements, details such as the number killed still to be debated, however specious that argument is)? And, as we all know (but I don't think has been explicitly mentioned here, so I'll mention it), Zionism and the beginnings of the occupation of Palestine by immigrant Jews started long before the Holocaust, although it's also true that the final push for the fait accompli we see today was given by the Holocaust.

Thanks to masoud above for attempting to give us some flavor of the entire speech, with complete context for the remarks (or, in most cases, the single words like "lie") pulled out of the speech by the Western media, still doing everything possible to keep the Western populace at a fever pitch, ready to accept whatever follows with respect to Iran without raising their voice in protest.
Eli Stephens | Homepage | 21 Sep, 17:35 | #

OMG, then there's David! I never see you post there anymore. Well, I'll hit post on this anyway for the other two people who read pffugeecamp but it's pretty silly as a reply to you, huh.  


[ Parent ]
Then and now (4.00 / 1)
The image is essential to understanding



Arianna Huffington says left and right equally responsible for the rich shafting the poor (0.00 / 0)
And other utter bullshit remarks prompted by Moore's film

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


You probly mean this part, which is not utter bullshit: (0.00 / 0)
In the film, Michael describes capitalism as evil. I disagree. I don't think capitalism is evil. I think what we have right now is not capitalism.

In capitalism as envisioned by its leading lights, including Adam Smith and Alfred Marshall, you need a moral foundation in order for free markets to work. And when a company fails, it fails. It doesn't get bailed out using trillions of dollars of taxpayer money. What we have right now is Corporatism. It's welfare for the rich. It's the government picking winners and losers. It's Wall Street having their taxpayer-funded cake and eating it too. It's socialized losses and privatized gains.

Which is why -- although you can bet many will try -- Capitalism: A Love Story can't be dismissed as a left-wing tirade. Its condemnation of the status quo is too grounded in real stories and real suffering, its targets too evenly spread across the political spectrum.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

It's a very shallow column, which is the only reason I'd be harsh on her. Oh, and her 'what you can do': 'put flesh and bones on the tragedy by providing us your story.' That's whining inaction, not 'what you can do'. What you can do is 'no more Arianna Huffingtons'.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
No I was thinking of the later part (0.00 / 0)
where she insists its not about right vs left.  However that part above is certainly bullshit.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
Well, bullshit, utter bullshit, what's the diff? (0.00 / 0)
It's just so simplistic it's not worth commenting on. I have a bad feeling Moore's movie is the same. That good old boy anti-intellectualism Moore puts on over-simplifies his movies' messages, but I guess he feels he can't make people's brains hurt or they won't come to his movies.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
What complicated about it? (0.00 / 0)
Rich people fuck over the rest of us.  It's not rocket science.  It only gets complex if you try to lie about it as Arianna does in suggesting there's no left/right split.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
private property is evil? (5.00 / 1)
Where does capitalism end and begin? What is her/your definition of it? If you have private property and grow stuff on it and then sell that stuff, is that evil capitalism? (I don't consider that evil, so find an exception to the lame blanket statement.)

Huffington definitely doesn't understand that corporations and the rich corrupting governments (and profiting enormously from that) is normal capitalism and fundamental to 'capitalist democracy', which requires corruption of politicians by the monied. Authentic democracy would be all-out opposed by big capitalists.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Where are you getting that from? (0.00 / 0)
But if property rights trump human rights then that is evil, yes.  And that is the way the US constitution was written.  

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
From Huffington's simplistic column on 'capitalism'. (0.00 / 0)
I agree with your comment.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
I agree with Glenn Beck: McCain would have been more the liberal president (0.00 / 0)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

Comment of the Weeeeeeek! (4.50 / 2)
Comment of the Week this week was spotted at 'A Tiny Revolution' (qv).  Context was a diary sarcastically pointing out that Repubs = Dems and the two party thing is all farcical pantomime.


As a political junkie, let me just take a moment to apologize to all fans of professional wrestling. I'm sorry I looked down on you.


"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

Condi Rice has big fan base on HuffPost (0.00 / 0)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

So this (link above) is some shitty little diary cover for an AP piece about Condi saying if we leave Afghanistan the sun will explode and cute puppies will have their tails cut off.

But look at the comments!   Huff Post is getting really right wing.  I mean the articles always were but the comments are getting that way.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


Not the page 1 I just looked at (0.00 / 0)
Everyone's either hammering her or trolling.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Greenwald says left = right (will team up with Arianna perhaps?) (0.00 / 0)
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g...

Another idiotic left = right diary from Greenwald this time.  This is a staple for him though as he tries to stay "centrist" by regularly insulting the left.

In this case Greenwald says that attacking the corporate take over of government is not a left wing sort of thing.  Of course he does this by pretending that "left" means "Democratic Party" and he can't admit the Democratic party is right wing because he has to insist thee two parties are different from each other.

General utter confusion and idiocy follows.


"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


What kind of a retard can't tell if Glenn Beck is lef wing or right wing? (0.00 / 0)
Good grief.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.

[ Parent ]
Bizaro comments (0.00 / 0)
We've been split left and right, when we should be split consumer vs. corporate, or how ever you want to label it. We used to call it class war, but that never comes up anymore, though it appears more true than ever.

So apparently if you talk about class warfare and the rich vs the poor that makes you a right-winger or at least there's no less chance of you being welcomed at Fox news.  wow.  Really?  Maybe I'll be on Fox next then.

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


[ Parent ]
US Democracy a farce (0.00 / 0)
This is funny.  Apparently Americans can't even vote for who they want to by law.  I did not know that.

http://www.openleft.com/diary/...

What a joke of a "democracy".

I didn't know what "electoral fusion" was.  Apparently it is just common sense.  Good god if this is not legal you might as well pack up and go home.  You do not have  a democracy if you cannot chose who to vote for freely.  How hard a concept is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it", Helen Keller, communist.


That's a practical, useful column by Sirota (0.00 / 0)
The Working Families Party ain't perfect at all, but it pushes local NY politics to the left. Californians (and other states with initiative processes) could pass an initiative making such parties legal there. A good use of activist time that would be.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
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