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On the Historic Troll Donkeytale and Other Fakes

by: socrates

Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 18:21:23 PM EDT


I get taken in at first, because I am a good guy, sincere, and honest. Insidious individuals play off of my innocence. When the worst case scenarios arrive for them, such as that I figure out what is up, they then resort to further cheating. This has happened time and time again, since I became an amateur internet cybersleuth a few years back.

There are only so many explanations for when liars lie.

*** They are paid to pervert democratic processes on the internet.

*** They are loser trolls who could care less about who they hurt. In short, they are sadistic useful idiots.

Without paystubs as actual proof, dedicated trollbusters are forced to always mention the second possibility. It's not that one doesn't feel in one's gut, that someone is paid to post. It's that one needs to put malice to the side at all times, and explain whether one's findings are based on proof or opinion. This is why the adage "let the reader decide" holds ultimate sway.

socrates :: On the Historic Troll Donkeytale and Other Fakes
One needs to understand the concept of controlled, oppositional scripts. One must get a feel for what the trolls, paid or otherwise, are thinking. This is not biological science. There is a reason C. Wright Mills spoke of a sociological imagination.

I've been getting a sinking feeling in my gut, as I've seen one concern troll after another treat me like dirt. There was supersoling. He attacked me out of nowhere months back and ensured that the meme of myself as a shit stirrer would germinate. Then recently, Vox Humana, FairLeft, and DavidByron all failed in treating the data in an objective manner. I will leave FairLeft to the side, because I find his writing style virtually unreadable. The other two are also very cumbersome. But unlike FairLeft, they do have solid personalities. Mattes and LastHorseMan? No, they do not seem to have a core personality. There is no there, there.

Vox and Byron have utterly failed to interact with the most basic of proof, that Jack had outed himself. They have failed to take even a quick look at the emails between us, that Jack did not include. Not only has JSR cheated by lying about me being into phishing, similar to how Lauren S. {MajorFlaw?} has posted that I harvest ip addresses, he left out the key ingredients that explain why I thought he had stolen a Hofstra student's identity. Folks can check that out here.

Donkeytale has been my biggest supporter. No one else has fought for my dignity. Donkeytale is a genius. I'll give him credit for that. He appears to definitely have studied and utilised propaganda manuals. For a historic troll to pay dividends, there must be some level of credibility. The first negatives I read about him were that he stalked female bloggers, used sock puppets, and was against DFQ's trollbusting. I found zero proof that he stalked any bloggers. Acting like a troll or nuisance on messageboards is not illegal, if it stays within the realm of anonymous usernames and on the net. It was also apparent that Jack had made up lies, or they were gift-wrapped to him in order to create the illusion that noom, donkeytale, shadowthief, and Eric S. were all the same person and worthy of banishment. Finally, while donkeytale did not show much respect for DFQ's later work, he did fight for his right to publish such findings and ideas.

Yet, over the last few months, things started to not add up concerning the historic troll. He coined sock rat as my nickname. Despite telling him I did not like that name, despite telling him how I have been victimised by an elaborate, cybersmear script concerning the use of sock puppetry, despite the fact that I stood up for him, he has utterly failed to return the good will I have shown him. He continues to call me sock rat. The other day he referred to an internet friend, may41970, as sock rat. He stood up for HowardX and supersoling, despite the fact that both of them treated me like dirt.

Is Donkeytale a Political Operative or Spook?

That is for the reader to decide. I finally got to read some posts of his, where he outright lied. At DFQ, I started to understand, that he is a right-center Democrat. That in itself does not mean someone is a troll. Heck, Pinche Tejano supporting Ron Paul and Phil Gramm does not supply the necessary conditions to call him a troll either. The troll designation is applied, when insidious lies are uncovered. I sincerely now believe that donkeytale is a right woos left troll, same as Pinche Tejano, same as the vast majority of posters to be found at FSZ and PFF. I believe most of these people are fakes.

Desperation Uncalled For on Left

Dont borrow on credit cards is my advice. I stopped using mine even though I go hungry in the dorm once in a while....

I plan to take you up on all, except someday I would want to have children. But I know I need to make some money and have health insurance first....

My dad got laid off his job a few years ago and has since started his own business. Its been hard, but he is starting to make almost as much money as he did when laid off---and he is a lot happier now. He has advised me to stay away from corporate life....

I was born and raised in Wisconsin....

My dad tells me he [Clinton] reopened the federal student loan program so I could afford to go to collede....

I was born in the 80s....

I have been studying community blogs and I have pretty solid evidence. A respected member can say something and receive a bundle of 4s, while a newcomer can say virtually the same thing and be troll rated off. This is why I never have posted on Daily Kos....

I am not a troll. I am also not a robot. I am a student. I am learning....

No, he is a liar. Does he lie all the time or often? I don't think so. Perhaps he wasn't lying when he wrote the following.

Lets see now, I have many different names from which to choose, after all, I invented sock puppetry with brinnainne at BMT simultaneously to inventing role playing in the blogosphere...

It is quite bizarre, imho, how certain usernames like donkeytale and supersoling are always finding themselves in the thick of the meta. Both, like Curmudgette, love to astroturf themselves as experts on such yet never seem to provide anything concrete.

Then there is also the concept of the concern troll.

http://www.urbandictionary.com...

1. In an argument (usually a political debate), a concern troll is someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with "concerns". The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally. Concern trolls who use fake identities are sometimes known as sockpuppets.

2.A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.

3. A person who lurks, then posts, on a site or blog, expressing concern for policies, comments, attitudes of others on the site. It is viewed as insincere, manipulative, condescending.

My Conclusions

Internet right woos left is fact. We know this through looking at examples such as Alex Jones, Willis Carto, Jeff Rense, and Michael Rivero. That concern trolls exist is a fact. Whether they are paid or not is the million dollar question.

Certain posters such as Blues, Lasthorseman, and Mattes appear to be caricatures representing right woos left's infiltration into the progressive blogosphere. Concern trolls such as KarmaFish attempt to reinforce the fallacy that tinfoil and anti-semitism is derived from the left, and he uses examples such as with the above usernames as his proof.

Marisacat appears to be for real. Where I think she has made a mistake, or perhaps not, is in thinking Shadowthief is from California. There are things called tor and proxies, in which usernames can spoof their location. There are tors that one can do a whois on and it will lead them to academic institutions. I do not believe that shadowthief is an educational administrator with too much time on his hands.

Concern trolls do like to bend gender roles and role play. They do like to spin their disinfo around the concept of sock puppetry and convolution. There are things like limited hangouts. Posters such as supersoling, Vox Humana, David Byron, Revisionist, Yetimonk, and FairLeft are examples of posters who spin themselves as having good ideas to offer concerning "meta," but what they present leads to nowhere.

I believe that Hidden Comment/wormwood {and another hard to remember name at DKos- a centrist at that} is also Greenwood and is not a female.

I think that DeeDogg is FeloniousMonk. I think that Pinche Tejano is friends with the UGOGs in real life along with JSR. I believe that FSZ is a controlled opposition to DKos. I believe their plausible deniability is that they are nasty meanies rather than being part and parcel of some political operative or psychological operation network.

I do think a few people are legit. Yet, the convolution is spun so thick, that it is very difficult to get to the bottom of things. My recommendation to the good readers and any sincere posters is to stay clear of all these forums. You can't beat cheaters, when you are caged into their pigsties. They get away with their bullshit through the use of the concern trolls. They do want some real people around. They do realise their racket is harder to obscure, if it is just themselves spinning tales.

These people believe that there is a need for a balance in the world, that it is a jungle, and that the United States is the moral compass.

Now that I see that donkeytale is ultimately one of them, there is no point in me trying to counteract any of this utter bullshit on their own turf. I am a real person. My story is organic. I also do not willingly make false statements. I am pretty much done here. I am going to take action, but it is going to take place away from the manipulative forces and through proper legal channels.

In short, I have been the wrong person to fuck with. A few of us are working together behind the scenes. Most of the responsibility lies on my shoulders to fight for my integrity and dignity. I agree with may41970 that insidious forces have been trying to drive me to suicide and confusion. At times they have succeeded. Yet, this is not about individual battles. This is not about going around in circles with sadistic people and their various usernames. I will have my day, and it will come through the proper channels such as with courts and the media. I do not use sock puppets. I have always explained who I am, and where I have been.  No one has had any right to insinuate that I am a pedophile, stalker, or anything else like that.

Cut the military by 80%. Prosecute the war criminals. Provide every citizen with equal education, housing, food, work, and health care. Create a Palestinian homeland side by side in peace with Israel. It is time for authentic progressive ideals centered around social and environmental justice to come to fruition. I'm done fighting these assholes on their own turf. Yet, I am not done fighting. I and others will win this ideological war. The internet is rigged. You know it.

Political Flesh Feast pages from the Wayback Machine

The Day I Tried to Live by Soundgarden

I woke the same as any other day
Except a voice was in my head
It said seize the day, pull the trigger
Drop the blade, and watch the rolling heads

The day I tried to live
I stole a thousand beggar's change
And gave it to the rich

The day I tried to win
I dangled from the power lines
And let the martyrs stretch
Singing

One more time around might do it
One more time around might make it
One more time around might do it
One more time around
The day I tried to live

Words you say never seem
To live up to the ones inside your head
The lives we make never seem
To ever get us anywhere but dead

The day I tried to live
I wallowed in the blood and mud with
All the other pigs

I woke the same as any other day you know
I should have stayed in bed

The day I tried to win
I wallowed in the blood and mud with
All the other pigs

And I learned that I was a liar
Just like you

Music: Cornell; Lyrics: Cornell

 

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If I remember from second year law school correctly, (4.40 / 5)
No one has had any right to insinuate that I am a pedophile, stalker, or anything else like that.

Actually, they do.  It is called the Right of Free Speech.  Unless it can be proven that they have hurt you (whoever you are) financially, there is no recourse through the legal system.  As you appear to be anonymous, and have taken great pains to remain so, there is no libel case to be made against people who besmirch your anonymous avatar.

Now, if you posted under your true name, and could prove in court that you were financially hurt by these allegations, then you would have a case.

Of course, that is if you conider the Internet as 'published material.'

If you consider it free speech, then it is even harder to make a civil case.

However, there is almost no chance that any posters in the United States (or information stored on servers in the United States) have any criminal recourse, as per this map

Unless, of course, your real name has been used in these acts.  Therein lies the difference between what you did with Maryscott O'Connor, regardless of the truth of your statements.  As you used her 'real name,' you do have some problems with both criminal and civil actions.

But slanderous actions taken against a fictitious name, where the owner of said name is unknown, cannot be acted upon legally.

Unless you're talking about taking extra-legal measures, and of course those would be illegal.  


This is the second time I have seen you write this: (3.67 / 3)
I agree with may41970 that insidious forces have been trying to drive me to suicide and confusion. At times they have succeeded.

I said this in another comment at this site: nothing online is so important to do something like that. Well, confusion, maybe. But suicide? Please, never. If you feel people are driving you there, grab the steering wheel and make a u-turn. I guess that's what you are doing with this diary in some part?

I know you don't like me or even trust me. I can understand why. You seem to be an all-or-nothing kind of guy when it comes to all theories, beliefs and relationships - and there really is no way I will be able to get to that point with you... mainly if for no other reason than I am not you. All the people you mention face the same dilemma to some degree or other. Even donkeytale.

Cut the military by 80%. Prosecute the war criminals. Provide every citizen with equal education, housing, food, work, and health care. Create a Palestinian homeland side by side in peace with Israel. It is time for authentic progressive ideals centered around social and environmental justice to come to fruition.

When I see you saying you want to do all you can to further these goals, I take a lot of heart. I might even be so bold as to guess that there are many here who agree with you and are working on one or more of those issues. I don't know if the internet is fully rigged, but it certainly is at least partially - I agree with that. Knowledge of that can cause people to become suspicious of those who might have been true allies, though. But what can anyone do, and especially someone such as yourself who believes so much in what he does that anyone who accepts only part of what you say is the same as someone who rejects it completely? It's a hard thing.

I said this before and I'll say it again: it doesn't matter what the e-mails said, including the ones you posted. It would have been far better not to have e-mailed him in the first place. That was the first problem. I don't have much interest in what any one e-mail did or didn't say because they should not have happened. Inadmissible evidence for me. And it doesn't matter how anyone else got that address, either. I will say that I don't think you were phishing, as I understand that term to be commonly applied. I believe others have said the same thing.

This paragraph is really interesting:

I do think a few people are legit. Yet, the convolution is spun so thick, that it is very difficult to get to the bottom of things. My recommendation to the good readers and any sincere posters is to stay clear of all these forums. You can't beat cheaters, when you are caged into their pigsties. They get away with their bullshit through the use of the concern trolls. They do want some real people around. They do realise their racket is harder to obscure, if it is just themselves spinning tales.

but I come to the opposite conclusion. Be skeptical, yes, but don't let this drive you away. In the long run, the truth can get figured out. But I think you have to be willing at any time to reverse course, to think you might be mistaken, to alter theories.

Cumbersome is a good word for my writing style. I don't think I spin myself as having good ideas about meta, but that wouldn't be for me to decide. I just like to talk. A lot, huh?

Well, you didn't ask me about any of this, I guess, but I wish you well. I think you make good points about some things and are way off base on others. Maybe some day we could talk about it, but probably not now.

Please... be well, though.


In unity (0.00 / 0)
with my brethren sock, something to ponder from the deepest, darkest corners of the drawer, with linky goodness.


sockalicious to the last drop of meta smoothie!

i hope you're in better spirits soon. nt (4.33 / 3)


The defectors have started an underground railroad to smuggle other rebels out of hostile territory

Yes, right woos left. So what? (4.00 / 4)
Left also woos right. One method of doing this is creating a faux blognality, a 'reasonable/nice leftie' or 'reasonable/nice rightie' who just happens to argue for several fundamental ideas of the supposedly opposite political persuasion. This is done all the time, I was doing it myself on dailykos and got sick of the inauthenticity of myself and so many others there. Why is it done? Because, unfortunately, many if not most lefties and the righties don't listen to blognalities straightforwardly of the other persuasion. It's a standard device of persuaders and manipulators.

Anyway, who cares? Why does it bother you so much? Persuasion, if you think people are being stealthily and unfairly politically manipulated, is not "I'm mostly a v. cool leftie dude who just happens to be pushing some rightie ideas." Do you really think that works? Well, yeah, maybe it does, but if that's how people are persuaded all is lost anyway. On the intertubez we should just look at the quality of people's ideas and the quality of their evidence. That's what these places should actually teach us, that truth is not about trusting a personality that you find cool and authentic. That's part of the world of manipulation.

And please don't kill yourself, you still have a lot of important to do and responsibilities to fulfill. One of which is, imho, learn to understand me and at least vox humana. Not agree, just understand. I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me where and when I've been too obscure, and I'll try to communicate better.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


More like Fairleft, so what? (0.00 / 0)
First off, you are unreadable, very boring. Secondly, you are part and parcel of right woos left, whether you are paid or are a garden variety useful idiot. There was your sticking up for ThereIsNoRape. There was your calling Francis Holland a nutcase. There is your constant inability to interact with context. to go with your propensity to blow up like a stereotypical "radical." No one should listen to you, vox humana, supersoling, or nearly every other blogger who participates on soapblox blogs. There was also your over the top flaming out at DKos attacking a professor for having the "gall" to stick it to republican soccer moms, who do exist, and who do suck. You are a useless pimple in the blogosphere. Always have been, always will be.

http://davefromqueens2.blogspo...
http://allaircraftarenotinvolv...


[ Parent ]
I quietly was dismissed from Dailykos for attacking Georgia WTF's politics or Condoleaser's official bully status (4.00 / 3)
I never commented on soccer or soccer moms. As for everything else, it's bullshit or radically out of context. If you provide the context I'll respond.

Overall, you won't get anywhere intellectually with your overarching "everyone's cointelpro or right woos left." You don't have evidence of that. That should be a problem, it should pull you back from making confident assertions about other blognalities.

By the way, the U.S. war budget should be 2-5% what it is now, not 20% of what it is, and it's not for you pwoggies to decide Palestine/Israel should have two states instead of one multi-religious, multi-ethnic one. You were sounding kind of 'right woos left' there, is the only reason I point those two Obama/DLC positions out.

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
well, otoh, I do think Francis Holland is a loon, (3.00 / 2)
just an impression from the way he jumps from minimalist evidence with multiple possibilities (the 3-6 month gap in kos's early post-law school employment record) to his certainty that kos had been hired by and was working for the CIA.

And about thereisnospoon's couple years ago thoughtless, crass "not that it isn't rape but maybe she shouldn't've gotten drunk" comment on women passing out and getting raped at frat parties, I don't like seeing people getting bullied off of community blogs based on anything, much less a single, off-hand 'inappropriate in political correcty world comment'. It's obvious to me that people just targeted him as a 'friend of kos' and there was open season on those types at that time. Destroying free speech on 'your' site is a stupid response to dkos's destruction of free speech on his site.

Respecting the meta . . .

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep


[ Parent ]
Fairleft was a casualty of condo's bullying, (4.00 / 3)
that's what he told a group of us at the time.  When I looked at the site record from that time, it certainly appeared to me that the main reason for his banning was for sticking up for someone who condo wanted banned and getting targeted for that.  The admins did not state a reason for his banning, they rarely do, so we had to guess based on the public record (if you have an inside source on this or other bannings, feel free to cite him/her).  Fairleft was a member of our group blog at the time, so I wrote to Hunter requesting his reinstatement and Hunter did not mention anything of the sort that you imply.

Fairleft's perspective is to the left of your average Democrat's on many topics.  Whether you agree with him or not, he usually states his points clearly.  If you find him boring, don't read him.


[ Parent ]
Nice tune, dude.... (0.00 / 0)
Rockkk on, SOCRATES. You are the king of us all y'all.
Sweet soul music.

With Love Always,

from yur stunt double



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