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50,000,000 Reasons Why Megaupload Was Seized

by: socrates

Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 17:56:31 PM EST


 

From the not so reliable Wikipedia but perhaps accurate in this instance.

   * Unique visitors: 81,000,000[citation needed]
   * Page Views (in history): >1,000,000,000[10]
   * Visitors per day: 50,000,000[10]
   * Reach: 4%[11]
   * Registered Members: 180,000,000[10]
   * Once the 13th most visited site on the Internet[10]

First, lets look at the backstory through socratisation. The movie and music industries for a very long time have been part and parcel of corrupt capitalism. Fat pigs have been raking it in at the expense of fair play. Here are a few examples, starting off with some old-movie fetish.
socrates :: 50,000,000 Reasons Why Megaupload Was Seized
With all due respect to Cary Grant, Clark Gable, Bette Davis, and Joan Crawford, they were not the be all end all for acting talent. Through development of the cult of personality, Movie moguls amassed huge amounts of dough off of those brand schticks.  

Much more talented thespians never reached such heights of stardom. There were also many more gifted actresses such as Peg Entwistle who never had a chance. She tragically took her own life by jumping off the Hollywoodland sign. She definitely had some baggage to begin with, but it was the Hollywood star system which was the final straw in her making such a sorrowful decision.  

Jump ahead and take a look at all the crap currently put out by Hollywood. There's a movie called Drive starring some untalented scrub named Ryan Gosling, and that flick is currently rated an absurdly high 8.1 at IMDB.com. It is pure crap. Only a complete idiot would shell out ten to fifteen dollars to watch such drivel.

The same is going on with music. A select few money sellers get pimped out, while millions or whatnot numbers of talented folks never get a chance to make it as musicians.

In short, the movie and music barons have had their bluffs called. We the people are sick and tired of their piss poor "products." The internet has enabled us to cut out the useless providers. They have asked for this backlash, since they pretentiously expected us to swallow their backwash. Nearly all of us would have been willing to pay for stuff, if uhm, the stuff was actually good. It isn't, so fock them. As the great philosopher Joseph P. Dirt once quipped, "It's all about the consumer."

So here came Megaupload with a different and more democratic vision. In a few years it was able to build up a big base of members and visitors. Its plan was to press forward with something called Mega Box. It was basically gonna give talented no-names the chance to finally become successful, an opportunity not allowed by the music industry.

This utterly freaked out the fat cats. And the movie industry was gonna be next in line for eventual obsoletion.

At the end of this mailed in entry are a bunch of links, so the reader can check out for herself what is being said by the zeitgeist. One numbnutted devil's advocate is saying, to paraphrase, "Oh, no way is this bottom line about Mega Box being a threat to the music industry."

Some people simply like the sound of their own voices. They get a cheap thrill out of being anal retentive contrarians in spite of the obvious.

There are tons of websites that could have been just as easily taken down. Megaupload was attacked, because they posed a serious threat to the music industry status quo. This specific seizure had nothing to do with piracy. Copyright law being the rationale is nothing less than a limited hangout.

The music and movie industries couldn't care less about we the viewers and listeners. This is why no one other than capitalist pigs and authoritarian personalities are sympathising with their plights.

The ptb's might have won this battle, but long-term they will fall flat on their fat fock faces. Masses of regular guys and gals will simply reorganise and develop the next Mega Box and Megaupload. Or perhaps that people empowering company will be able to fight back and reestablish itself.

Related Links
Was Megaupload Targeted Because Of Its Upcoming Megabox Digital Jukebox Service?

Why was MegaUpload really shut down?  

/eyeroll
Today In Conspiracy Theories: MegaBox Is Why MegaUpload Was Taken Down

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Here's my new masterpiece (4.00 / 1)
But the big question to me is this. How come we are told "i before e except after c," yet seize isn't spelled sieze?

You might like Arthur Silber's post about this >>>>>>>>> click link to his site (4.50 / 2)


This is as much about making an example and (4.00 / 2)
inducing fear as its about Megaupload's proposed bypass of the entire music industry. He was an easy villain for them. But you're right, it had nothing to do with the piracy itself.

Did you hear they had to cut him out of his safe room?


[ Parent ]
Dotcom was kind of stupid (0.00 / 0)
First of all, who is such an ass as to change their last name to DOTCOM? Secondly, I was reading that the dumbass was using servers in Virginia. Not too bright. And finally, it seems like they were being a bit too arrogant. Picture we're smoking a lot of weed. You don't go out in public and light up a fatty in front of a donut shop with the smell of bacon wafting. That's what it appears this Megaupload might have been up to. People need to be more cool about this shit. Maybe I'm wrong, but in a way he ratted himself out.

[ Parent ]
Yeahbut, what about piratebay, isohunt, etc etc? (4.00 / 1)
I think it was his proposed thingy that got the sights set on him. Yeah he's a fat greedy bastard...but who isn't in the tech/media game?

Part of me also thinks this is a message to all the Americans threatening to move to New Zealand...

We can arrest your fatass anywhere.


[ Parent ]
Here is what I have heard (0.00 / 0)
I got into youtube. I know of a few other places. I don't download anything. That being said, I've been able to see just about every flick I ever wanted to.

But I'm into quality. Sure, I like to see a newer one once in a while, but those are rare. I can wait ten years to watch something and not feel I'm missing out. That's how bad I think movies have gotten.

The copyright topic is interesting in its own right. I realy don't have much info. From what I have been told, people should abstain from torrents. It's these cloud and storage spaces which is causing the friction.

SOPA and PIPA Longstocking whatever aren't getting passed. So while I feel bad for people truly into getting whatever they want, I am ok with fishing around and trying to find good stuff not so easily. I've found that if you can't find it now, if it's that vital to see, it'll pop up somewhere sometime. Or fricken cough up a few bucks and rent it out.

I'm basically saying make the internet like tv. Put in your ads or whatever you have to do. But don't censor. Let us have the ultimate playground for finding what we like.


[ Parent ]
And don't make us pay more (0.00 / 0)
I don't like WB and other companies expecting us to cough up money to see their movies at youtube. With tv you pay your cable bill, and that's it. That's how the net should be.

[ Parent ]
That's a nice article (0.00 / 0)
That dude's a good writer.

Oh
The State laughs at you:

It was the kiliing of two birds with one stone. It's really tough to quantify. But I do agree it wasn't to do with piracy finding its way onto Megaupload.

The fear factor worked, because an inside source a friend of mine has noticed a lot of other similar websites doing storage have closed shop.

I think it's probably more of a let the dust settle, and in a few months things will be back to normal situation. It's like weed. They tried to turn it into something akin to murder, but it's just weed. Here in Massachusetts it's close to legal.

So I'm basically saying there's no way for the music and movie industries to hold onto their dinosaur business models. I don't think anyone minds them being ass kickers with newer content, but if they think we're gonna pay for the older stuff, they can't stop us. They'd have to arrest a billion people worldwide for watching free movies. I think youtube has the right idea. Throw in some ads, but let the stuff remain.


[ Parent ]
And speaking of more US crime crime... (5.00 / 1)
Due to the severity of his sentence and because his crimes are counted as serious felonies, Jeremy was sent to Calipatria State Prison, a maximum security facility, designed to house the "worst of the worst". Because he was convicted under the three strikes law, he cannot reduce the time he spends in prison by more than one-fifth (rather than the standard one-half) of his sentence; therefore, he will become eligible for parole in 59.5 years, when he is 86 years old.

His two small children, now aged one and three, will not meet their father outside a prison visiting room until they are in their sixties. One hates to bring up anything so crass as money at such a moment, but should Jeremy live until his seventies or eighties, his incarceration will have cost the California taxpayer in the vicinity of $4m dollars.

I thought Jeremy's case must have broken some kind of sentencing record for a non-violent offender, until I learned of a man called Thomas Dye who received a sentence of 167 years under the three strikes law for a serious of petty thefts, bouncing checks and stealing a truck. I can't spare the words here to get into the rationale behind Dye's 167-year sentence, but because he tried to appeal, all the details of the verdict can be seen in his online court records.  

Dye case here:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/f...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm...


There's a whole lot of bullshit going on (5.00 / 1)
While Madman gets busted laying down bombs leading to a man's suicide and somehow only served 13 out of 51 years. He served four more years for a parole violation he claims never happened. And then to top it off, he claims he wasn't the Speedway Bomber and is no longer serving any parole committments due to an agreement with the US Justice Department. And Triple F swallowed all that like an utter dumbass. Fucking bullshit. Hopefully Rupp is about to go off for a triple double- 28 points, 14 boards, and 12 assists. Chant with me- Rupp Rupp Rupp Rupp Rupp You the Man Rupp!

[ Parent ]
Off-Topic (sort of) (4.00 / 1)
but every time I click on a YouTube I get a banner ad telling me how much Obama needs my support.

Even for me, the all time world's whiteyspheric record holding Obamabot, I'm getting irritated enough that I might consider throwing all my resentment behind Newt Gingrich in the Texas Primary.

My question is, does everybody else see the Obama ads too or just me, as a result of SEO?

For instance, what does Dustin see, as example, when he clicks on the following youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...


I think those are geographically based (5.00 / 1)
If so, wherever you are will dictate what ad you see.

Or maybe there is a manager's special for ads, and we all get stuck with the same ad across this vast cultural wasteland called Amerikkka.

I would like to go off-topic on your off-topic (sort of).

For a right leaning person, Dustin's the best. He's a nice guy who avoids the lame repukelican versus libtard mindset.

He's a contrarian's contrarian or wtf.

Maybe it has to do with mob mentality. You get someone like Liberty Chick alone, and she's very reasonable and openminded. But get her going back and forth with either a cabal of right wingers or a leftist one, and she becomes as predictable as some bloke who used to troll Huffington Post as BJ Clinton.

Though I will give that supertroll BJ Clinton credit for one thing. His sign off as "We're driving the bus" was pure genius. That's why I committed schtick theft with that one. Thrilla in Vanilla was greatness too, thus I stole it.

If you can't beat them, steal their schtick. Though a lesson is to be learned in Brynaert's lame attempt at stealing mine. You damn well better put on an excellent puppet show, if you're gonna commit schtick theft.

[p0:)>


[ Parent ]
I like Dustin fine. The PFF zeitgeist requires some affirmative action conservatism, such as we had (0.00 / 0)
with the greaness of Neo-Kong. I figured he'd be back during election season but perhaps even he is too mortified by the current crop of GOP non-celebrity rehab retreads they have thrown up for our perusal during the primary season.

Its going downhill for them sorta like Amerikkkan Idle.


[ Parent ]
Do the Burqa (0.00 / 0)

Dutch satirist Johan Vlemmix has decided not to perform his latest hit Do the Burqa onstage following death threats.

The song, a carnival parody to the music of Van McCoy's Do the Hustle, is a huge success on YouTube, so much so that the video provider has switched off the comments facility. Too many people were posting angry reactions saying that they had been insulted.

The images show a woman wearing a T-shirt which can be instantly converted into a burqa, be it one that does not cover the breasts.

Mr Vlemmix said he had expected some commotion over his song: "I'm not exactly dumb." But he had failed to anticipate the virulence of the reactions: "I really meant it as a joke. Because the burqa is banned in the Netherlands I thought it was fun to offer a carnival alternative for it: the burqa shirt."

Carnival, a colourful, musical and noisy feast celebrated annually in the southern half of the Netherlands, is often used to mock authorities and make fun of social issues by people dressed up or disguised in humorous creations.

Translation
He has not only stopped performing the song onstage, Johan Vlemmix has also cancelled the option to order the shirts via his website. But he stops short at pulling the video from Youtube: "I made it because I was convinced it was right, and I refuse to take it down."

http://www.rnw.nl/english/arti...

get yours today!] [




Not a fan. (4.00 / 1)
Not a fan of the parody.  Not a fan of the consequent threats.

I would feel the same way regarding such a parody of any religious minority in any country. Or at least, I hope I would.


[ Parent ]
how bout this madmana? (4.00 / 2)
Shahin sees New Age Islam as part of a global effort by believers to reclaim Islam from the religious right, and address the questions and conflicts which confront believers in the twenty-first century. "Islam," he argues, "is a spiritual experience; a system of beliefs through which believers seek to live a meaningful life. For the Islamists, though, religion is primarily a tool through which they seek power. In practice, they worship power, not Allah."

==

Last year, Shahin set up a website that has taken on the religious right head-on. Though run on a shoestring budget and without the help of full-time staff, New Age Islam is visited by hundreds of readers every day. Its electronic newsletter has over 29,000 subscribers.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/2...

please lend your support. Send him a note axing him to visit us here on pffuck tha wirld.

Islamic website New Age Islam is an open forum, where divergent views on a wide range of issues are freely debated and contested. It seeks to urge Muslims to introspect, to cease blaming others for all their ills, to recognize where they have gone wrong, in terms of both thought and action.

New Age Islam] [

thanx.



[ Parent ]
That's an interesting site. (5.00 / 1)
The terminology is slowing me down, but it looks interesting.

In the name of peace, wouldn't you want to invite him here to Camp David?


[ Parent ]
uh why ? (4.00 / 1)
imperial nutjob Islamists are at war with Christians (and The West) too. And whatever you r. What is that, Quaker? Quaker Oats? I forget. Sorry.

Do you object to a Quaker being used as a symbol to sell oatmeal? There he is right on the box inviting, manipulating, wooing and conning consumers to place it in their shopping carts.

Besides that, your Camp David reference duzzent quite fit the situation, tho I get the gist of what you mean obviously. This guy's in India after all. And Israel didn't make peace with Muslims but with the Egyptian gov't. The Muslims in Egypt continued with their anti_ Jew propaganda and hysteria all through Mubarak's tenure.

I thawt it woode be a goode idea tho 4 you to extend an invitation since you object to the burqa video. You can ax him what he thinks of it and the Amish video as well. Then we can ax him what he thinks of the Jews.

haha!@

The ball is in your court.

thanx

=


[ Parent ]
You mean (4.00 / 3)
I would feel the same way regarding such a parody of any religious minority in any country

like this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...


[ Parent ]
OMG!!!! (5.00 / 1)
That video is sooo funny- gonna party like it's 1699. haha @ bquop bquop [p0o:)>

[ Parent ]
Yeah... (4.00 / 1)
not my favorite Weird Al.

I do like me some Weird Al, though.

That's not as mean-spirited, but it still seems a little unfair to satirize (and profit from) people who have no knowledge they are being made fun of and have no way to respond.


[ Parent ]
Well, they can respond if they want. I would hope that the Amish, unlike perhaps certain Muslim fundamentalists, (4.67 / 3)
have the ability to laugh at themselves and their peculiarities?

One thing I have always loved about Jewish comedians the way they poke fun at themselves, their religion and each other (AKA self-hating). I find that cultural ferment necessary for the advancement of society and frankly for the evolution of society in a healthy, leftist direction.

What we are talking about here seems to be Marcusian, eh, Socrates? Whether leftists should be "tolerant of intolerance."

I find the video an artistic expression, one that is critical of certain repressive religious cultures. I do not know the artist's politics but as a leftist I am in favour of open artistic expression, as opposed to violence as a form of expression, which is "fascist".

Is the burqa and chador a normative cultural choice, like the mini-skirt in western society, or is it an act and symbol of religious repression of the human spirit?

If the latter, then how can we, as leftists, condemn the video as criticism of human repression?

If the former, then the video is still a valid criticism of a cultural norm, like its intentions or not.

The fear of a violent reaction is a main part of the artistic drama, in a metafictive sense. For the violent reaction to a creative work is perhaps the basest definition of "fascism," where violence is elevated to the status of a social art form.

Why the violent reaction or the threat of violence by certain people to these types of art? Is it a matter of religious piety or an attempt at maintaining repressive control, which this video seeks to undermine?



[ Parent ]
Yep, it's time to be intolerant of Vox Humana's blend of tolerance (4.50 / 2)
Marcuse spoke of "Repressive Tolerance," and that is precisely what Vox Vumana is advocating in a very preachy, over-the-top, fake lefty manner.

There's not one thing wrong with the Weird Al video. Yet to Vox Humana, he feels it is soooo unfair, because the Amish have no electwicity and can't defend themselves from such a brutal attack on their very essence.

Thus Vox might as well attach a Hitler mustache and do the GW Bush speech about how they hate us for our freedoms. We're all vulnerable to becoming Good Germans. There isn't a German gene where folks are more susceptible to becoming fascists. I hate to go this donkeytalish historic salty sailor supertroll route, but foook it, Vox needs to be spanked. There's a quote from Ecclesiastes, I forget it, it was mentioned in Platoon, not in a run on sentence like this, but_it_said_to_paraphrase, we have seen the supertroll, and it is we the tolerant triple f's.

Vox Humana is the heart and soul of what's wrong with the world. He wants everyone to have a chance to speak. He loves freedom of speech. But the way he is such weak milquetoast whenever he is contrarian serves the ideals of repressive tolerance.

Look at my early blogging roots. I wasn't born with a silver toast of the zeitgeist spoon in me mouth. It took a lot of hard cybersleuthing work and whatnot, to go with bumps on the head from vile trolls. Vox wants all voices heard. The problem with that is the voices in power, the zeitgeist incumbents, win out every time that is common blog law.

Vile self-serving trolls pretty much own the left zeitgeist. Being tolerant of both sides meant I as the lone voice of reason would be unfairly treated.

What it comes down to is laziness, imho. People such as Vox, supersoling, and deedog may be deep down good people, but if you're gonna chirp in on a topic, at least have the decency to do some homework.

It wasn't rocket science what I did a few years ago. And except for The Last Name Left, hmmm another socialist, not one of you dealt with the content I came up with.

Seriously, if one wants to figure out wtf has been going on with the net zeitgeist since 2004, who should they ask for help from the following: Larisa Alexandrovna, Brad Friedman, Ron Brynaert, Neal Rauhauser, Al Franken, or ME?

Yeah, common trolls, the answer is me.

It wasn't a Rubik's cube either. It was more like juggling three balls. As soon as donkeytale started looking into it, he started going aha, now I see. Sure, it was a bit convoluted and still is to most. But that doesn't mean the focker hasn't been finally figured out. No thanks to run of the mill conformist non-conformists such as Vox Humana. Rambo of the Amish my ass.


[ Parent ]
OK, but rather than make this a personal attack on Vox, super, deedogg, Brynaert, etc, et al, or (yet) another stirring repetition, er I mean rendition, of your internet martyrdom (5.00 / 1)
I'd prefer to keep this one on a purely theoretical, intellectual level. In that way, it might become a teaching moment. Y'know, a chance to delve into your academic credentials as a social theorist, which I for one would like to see more of from you. I think you tend to turn off a large segment of the newby/fence sitter crowd by personalising everything, especially in the deterministic repetition. All points lead back to the same place. Can we try a different destination this time?

Sure, it helps the ratings and attracts more comments, but thats altogether too easy for talents such as ours.

You see, this same principle of "repressive tolerance" is today a defining principle of what it means to be "left," at least wrt the whiteysphere.

And this is a left that is an inch deep historically, and extremely dependent on current internet memes and biases for their education and self-definition. And so much of what I read on the internet is not "leftist" either in theory or practice, to what is known by an oldtimer like me to be "leftism."

My point is if one is truly committed to being a real leftist, which is frankly a Marxist-Leninist historical perspective, IE the class struggle, then there needs to be a countervailing source of real leftist criticism (such as Marcuse) and a re-education for people who call themseleves "leftists."  

Calling yourself a "leftist" has become something of a badge of honour to many semi-educated but woefully under-life experienced 30-40 somethings who have come of age since the rise of the infoboobtubes. A positive development, to be sure, but only if these people actually start to think and act as leftists.

The Leninology blog is OK for the academic-minded, but really there is a much greater need to educate the masses, who miss the forest for the trees.

Rather than focusing on the class struggle they tend to misread current events, particularly in the middle east, of course, as ideological struggle of left versus right, I versus P or neo imperial globalism versus "authentic populism," when in fact the real ideological struggle in the ME is modern culture versus outdated culture,  authoritarian family kingdoms versus Democracy, and yes sectarian in the religious sense.

The trend towards democratisation in the ME will necessarily bring Sharia law to bear in countries where that has been suppressed by Soviet-influenced dick taterships (Libya, Egypt, Syria). This is not the same as saying radical islamicisation will occur or that enmity towards Israel will vanish. To the extent that democracy is actually allowed and followed, the new regimes are likely to be center-right on the Muslimic scale.

Noom may feel threatened, but I maintain this is a good thing from a historical standpoint for Israel, even though there will of course continue to be bumps in the road. for one thing, the sectarian nature of the Arab Springs will de-emphasize the iranian (Shiite) influence in Syria.

Short term all these newly freed from tyrannical nations will struggle mightily and indeed likely to suffer reverses into new tyrannies and hardships along the way, but the ultimate result will be the direction of the same historical process that Marx identified as leading to the triumph of the proletariat over the bourgeoisie.

To deny this historical process from developing within all of the Arab Springs, regardless the past imperial influences of the US/USSR/China/Iran, is simply not a leftist position.

Sorry Fake Leftists.

As we found with Russia and China, you cannot impose Marxist historical materialism without going through the bourgeois phase, which has occurred in the West and is now belatedly developing into maturity in both those countries.

Same as in the ME, where a middle class as we define it is comparatively microscopic today and religion tends to be socially/politically dominant (as in pre-industrial Europe) instead of middle class institutions.

In the ME, as democracy takes root, capitalism will also democratise compared to previous and a middle class will develop as a result. This is, indeed, the Marxist historical process.

Thus Spaketh Vladimir Ilyitch Donkeystoevsky


[ Parent ]
well (5.00 / 1)
Noom may feel threatened, but I maintain this is a good thing from a historical standpoint for Israel

that's not really worded precisely correctly. I don't feel threatened. And I'm not sure why the mubros and salafists are better for Israel than Mubarak. Egypt's economy was growing under Mubarak. He kept the peace for decades. Now Egypt's economy has nosedived and there's talk of tearing up the peace treaty. Of curse, Mubarak should have allowed more political freedom as should Assad, Khamenei and all the rest.

But I maintain, as I wrote once before, that the entire equation hinges on whether Iran gets the bomb. If they do the Ayatollahs will remain indefinitely - oil rich and empowered to spread radical, intolerant, imperial Islamism throughout the region and the world.

And meanwhile, Assad has so far survived thanks to Russia and Iran. How will the Syrian people overcome such a well armed, brutal regime? It will take a coup staged by top military personnel to get rid of Assad. Maybe it'll happen, who knows. But the people alone, even financed by the Saudis, cannot overcome heavy weaponry, tanks, helicopters, and planes which Assad controls. And of curse many on the left support Assad, (fairleft, Laura, dp) and oppose the people's will. They hide their contempt for the people by claiming The West has plotted the whole thing and that it's not really about democracy, but rather regional hegemony. As if it can't be both! But the people came out into the streets en masse on their own, of that their can be no doubt.

In the ME, as democracy takes root, capitalism will also democratise compared to previous and a middle class will develop as a result. This is, indeed, the Marxist historical process

Not sure about this. How will Egypt's economy support a robust middle class? What do they produce or innovate? They are way behind the technological curve. China manufactures everything. So what? And even if a middle class emerges somehow in the future, what makes you think it can overcome religious zealotry of the Islamist variety?

Isn't there a robust middle class in Saudi Arabia and Qatar? Are they moderate in their views towards Jews? uh no. No Jews allowed. They're fuckin' racist aholes. Are they moderate in any of their views towards women or gays? No. Who controls the flow of ideas? The radical, Islamist rich who dole out stipends to keep the people happy. These regimes aren't collapsing anytime soon.

But if bombing starts on Iran's nuke facilities, expect Hezbollah to start launching rockets into Israel. In that case Israel will have to finally deal a death blow to ahole Nasrallah and crew. It will be time to go for the head of that snake, something Olmert should have done a few years ago.

Interestingly, the majority of Arabs think it'll be a bad development if Iran gets a nuke. uber leftist aholes like to quote a single outlier Zogby poll which disagreed with that fact, but every other poll has supported that notion. Arab people don't want a nuke in the hands of the Ayatollahs.

a number of different polls have measured Arab attitudes toward Iran. In every case but one, these surveys have consistently demonstrated heavily negative views of Iran, its nuclear program, and of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

http://www.thecuttingedgenews....

whatevs

+)

==

 


[ Parent ]
fn, I'm curious about this: (0.00 / 0)
But I maintain, as I wrote once before, that the entire equation hinges on whether Iran gets the bomb. If they do the Ayatollahs will remain indefinitely -

I agree that more nuclear bombs are bad no matter who has them, but does it necessarily follow that if Iran gets the bomb the Ayatollahs will remain indefinitely?

Is the Ayatollah more powerful with one bomb than the Soviets were with hundreds?

disclaimer for those who might misunderstand my intentions in this thread:  I am not advocating on behalf of the Iranian, Israeli, Lichtensteiner or American governments, depending on the reader's particular tendency to read into the query, nor am I saying anybody should be getting the bomb.  I am not saying fake noom's premise is false. I am asking questions in the hope of learning more.


[ Parent ]
I hear you, brother (5.00 / 1)
Though I disagree with you on cutting slack for Rona. Your allegiance to folks though tenuous appears easily bought for with a compliment or two. Haha @

Nonetheless, that's basically a profound point you make. The blogospheric left will never have a positive impact unless it goes back to its roots by covering schticks such as class struggle while condemning the culture industry.

Uhm, as for my social theorist credentials, they are real, but that's from way back. Though it will always influence my overall schtick, I am no longer in the thick of it.

I liked Erich Fromm the best. I think he was the most accessible. Alice Miller, while I think not affiliated at all with the Hotdog Wiener Frankenfurtstein School of Critical Theory, did make a profound contribution to historic thinking greatness with her Poisonous Pedagogy schtick. She is quite an accessible read also. Jurgen Habermas, on the other hand, can kiss my ass.


[ Parent ]
To be willing to hear "both sides" of an issue, socrates, (0.00 / 0)
is not at all the same as being in sympathy with neither, one, the other, or both.  It is a willingness to listen.  No more.  But definitely no less.

It is certainly not the same as being tolerant of both sides, or accepting both sides at face value, or even of necessarily admitting there are two sides. Believe that as you will. Or not.

I will not accept the premise that encouraging free speech results in oppression.  Not in the long arc of justice it doesn't, though short-term I think your criticism is often valid.

[deep breath, deciding to proceed]

And so you know, socrates, I have been reading the diaries you and donkeytale have written on the topic to which I assume you refer.  Though I get the picture much better now (I think), there are still parts I don't understand. Vast parts. My mind just doesn't work that way. I've said it before and I'm saying it again now. It doesn't mean I don't care about what is happening or that I am not trying.  I HAVE given up saying anything or asking any questions in those diaries because my attempts at wrapping my mind around that kind of intrigue and legal proceedings arouse such a white-hot fury from you and aversion from me that it is certainly not worth aggravating you or me in that way.

Similarly, I have no intention of engaging you on the topic now. It does neither of us any good, frankly.  I'll figure out what I can figure out when I can figure it out, and if you'll excuse me (and even if you won't), I'll do it in my time and in my way.


[ Parent ]
Too far, dear friend, too far. (5.00 / 1)
Though I like your essay.

The Amish I know (and admittedly the ones I do know are acquaintances) are delightful people and have perfectly fine senses of humor.  They couldn't watch this video, of course, unless they were teenagers and not yet confirmed into the church.  Then it would be fine - encouraged, even, in some families, as evidence of what the world thinks.

I don't deny the need for valid criticism of cultural norms (and engage in it actively at times myself), and I certainly don't condemn the video at all.  I merely note that it seems a little mean-spirited and unfair. So I'm not a fan.

But so what? The videos are posted. I said how I feel about them. I don't like them. That's allowed. I didn't complain by saying they shouldn't have been shown or linked. And the resulting discussion is actually pretty good.

As to your final paragraph of excellent questions: need the answer be either/or?  Because I think the most toxic result comes from both/and.


[ Parent ]
First, let me say it is a privilege/honour to be consiedered your "dear friend" (5.00 / 1)
And the feeling is likewise.

Yes, I expect that you criticise the video while not condemning it to censorship, I don't think that was my point, altho as noom mentioned my ideas here are poorly expressed (and I plan to respond to his as usual cogent analysis when I have time to gather my thots), and part of the poor expression is appearing too emphatic, when in fact I don't intend to be. Thhis is a difficult subject matter and endlessly controversial regardless of what "side" of the argument one takes. A fair person should feel troubled by the moral ambiguity, and I daresay that is the purpose of all art, especially literatire and film, to bother us over the difficult messy no good answer moral questions. I believe Marcuse and Marx operate from a similar critical impulse to challenge accepted social norms and reprssion.

I think the answer to my question is "both/and" and that is the crux of the matter. Do women have the freedom to wear thhe clothes they desire to wear, whether mini, middie, maxi or covered up?

I'm not sure the question is answerable. Its like asking are we ever truly free?

The answer in a Sartrian sense is yes we are perfectly free, at all times, but we allow ourselves to be enslaved by social norms, out of our fear of alienation, the approbation of society and threat of violence against us for acting freely.

The author of the video is affirming this freedom in the face of all these negative consequences, which is what makes his statement artistic in the metafictive sense, because obviously the work on its own is not meant to be a great work of art.


[ Parent ]
First, let me say it is a privilege/honour to be consiedered your "dear friend" (0.00 / 0)
And the feeling is likewise.

Yes, I expect that you criticise the video while not condemning it to censorship, I don't think that was my point, altho as noom mentioned my ideas here are poorly expressed (and I plan to respond to his as usual cogent analysis when I have time to gather my thots), and part of the poor expression is appearing too emphatic, when in fact I don't intend to be. Thhis is a difficult subject matter and endlessly controversial regardless of what "side" of the argument one takes. A fair person should feel troubled by the moral ambiguity, and I daresay that is the purpose of all art, especially literatire and film, to bother us over the difficult messy no good answer moral questions. I believe Marcuse and Marx operate from a similar critical impulse to challenge accepted social norms and reprssion.

I think the answer to my question is "both/and" and that is the crux of the matter. Do women have the freedom to wear thhe clothes they desire to wear, whether mini, middie, maxi or covered up?

I'm not sure the question is answerable. Its like asking are we ever truly free?

The answer in a Sartrian sense is yes we are perfectly free, at all times, but we allow ourselves to be enslaved by social norms, out of our fear of alienation, the approbation of society and threat of violence against us for acting freely.

The author of the video is affirming this freedom in the face of all these negative consequences, which is what makes his statement artistic in the metafictive sense, because obviously the work on its own is not meant to be a great work of art.


[ Parent ]
More on the cultural achievement of Don Cornelius (5.00 / 1)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm...

I am a child of the 1970s and have vivid memories of "Soul Train" on Channel 5 in New York City each Saturday morning at about 10am. I did not understand it then, but in retrospect, what Cornelius and that show represented was the cultural manifestation of the words of African American leaders like Dr King, Malcolm X, the Black Panther party, and many others. We were told, for the first time in our long history in America, that "black is beautiful" - and "Soul Train" gave us that beauty with blownout afros, bright and loud colors, form-fitting clothes, and the kind of dance moves that revolutionized that art form.

For sure, we cannot talk about MTV, BET, Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Beyonce, or even Madonna, without paying homage to many of the moves that first appeared on "Soul Train". For example, Michael Jackson's famous moonwalk was not his creation, but borrowed from dancer Jeffrey Daniel (later of R&B vocal group Shalimar), and debuted on "Soul Train" - some years before Jackson's historic performance on the Motown 25 special.

And "Soul Train" gave us Cornelius's catchphrases, like "love, peace and soul", which did as much for race relations in America as any march or protest. In my all-black ghetto of Jersey City, where I was born and raised, I assumed that only African Americans watched "Soul Train", perhaps naively, because my post-civil rights neighborhood was highly segregated, still. It wasn't until my later years, when I became fully engaged with people of all backgrounds that I learned they all watched "Soul Train" (and Dick Clark's "American Bandstand") on Saturdays, just as I had done.



[ Parent ]
We can also not talk about the mainstream acceptance (such as it is) of Barack Obama, POTUS, without mentioning the (5.00 / 1)
without talking about the mainstream precedent set by "Soul Train" beginning in the early 1970s.

[ Parent ]
When I was in Harlem (5.00 / 1)
shortly after Michael Jackson died, among the myriad tributes and shrines that were in windows of homes and shops for block upon block, one sign still stands out in my mind:

Michael Jackson moonwalked so Barack could run.


[ Parent ]
And MJ learned the move from a dancer on Soul Train! (0.00 / 0)
And not just any dancer, but one who would go on to fame as a member of the (underrated) singing group Shalamar.

The historical dialectical process of black musical development is as fascinating as the music itself.


[ Parent ]
"Cornelius's catchphrases, like 'love, peace and soul', which did as much for race relations in America as any march or protest" (0.00 / 0)

Dumb. I like what 'Soul Train' did for young people, and Cornelius was cool, but he was riding a wave that music fans were responsible for and that the music industry was finally catching onto. The national syndication of his Chicago show, after all, was not Cornelius's doing. Anyway, records were sold, African-Americans got additional style points, and by the mid/late 70s a long politically reactionary era began that deserved mass protest but got none.  

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness, For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people, For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. -- A-Hep

[ Parent ]
Dude you are whiter than white (5.00 / 1)

Yeah MJ didn't invent the moonwalk, what a revelation...but neither did the dude from Shalamar.

All the famous quirky "Black" dance moves are untraceable, organic; they come from the malaise of the ghetto, and it's called street dance. With tons of time and nothing but your body and some music as tools, the innate human brilliance manifests itself. It's only by chance that the benevolent Don gave you a semi-glimpse into the non-whiteysphere. And I can tell you(had a friend back in the day who compiled historical urban party scene footage) that Soul Train was at best a Disney representation of ghetto artistry.


Not sure why this comment was dropped hur (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
And, of course, you are black as the night, eh, Sista Louie? (0.00 / 0)
I love it when you unwittingy repeat the same concept as me thinking you are delving hipper and deeper.

RIOTOUS!

But I am very happy to see an actual comment from you where something similating a connected historical thought process occures.

Now for your specific points.

You said:

Yeah MJ didn't invent the moonwalk, what a revelation...but neither did the dude from Shalamar.

In response to this:

And MJ learned the move from a dancer on Soul Train!  And not just any dancer, but one who would go on to fame as a member of the (underrated) singing group Shalamar.

The discerning reader of comments about DC and ST will note that nowhere did I make the claim that either MJ or the guy from Shalamat invented the Moonwalk. In fact, this series of comments in contextually about the acceptance of black culture in the mass media not whether the culture displayed was authentic or on the cutting edge. ST was a rip-off of the American Bandstand concept, for gosh sake. D'uh. Cornelius was a conservative black man exploiting a sanitised, disneyish (as you state)over the top depiction of black youth culture. Double d'uh.

I said this:


The historical dialectical process of black musical development is as fascinating as the music itself.

Which is exactly what you were referring too with your excellent comment about the obscure give and take, push and pull development of black musical (including dance) culture in the underclass environment. I know and appreciate that as a fake leftist you havent the slightest idea what I meant by "historical dialectical process," but here is a hint for you: "dialectics" are different from "dianetics," wich is a Scientology concept you probably read about on the internet.

What I meant is what you said. However, I already knew that Vox knew what I meant so I didnt need to go into detail as you have done.

No, in fact, the importance of Soul Train has nothing to do at all with the orginality, or the cutting edge, or the avante garde, or however you want to frame it.

"BackintheDay" for you is like 2003, right?

The reference to Soul Train's significance goes back to 1971. Its achievement was in the MAINSTREAMING (ahem, what I said and Vox said) of a segment of American culture that heretofore was bottled up, still repressed (often violently), heavily segregated and removed from the MASS CULTURE that prevailed at the time (what the writer of the Guardian piece said).

The real accomplishment of Soul Train, as noted by David Bowie like in 1974 or wtf (sidenote:Cornelius subtly dissing Ziggy with his flat, emotionless and perfunctory introduction in the Golden Years vid, mispronouncing his stage name as "Boo-ie" RIOTOUS!)

when he sang: "Black got respect and White got a Soul Train."

Triple d'uh. But thanks for participating. Truly. You have information to impart about music, which is one of my favourite topics.  


[ Parent ]
Linky thingie, including bonus rap from the guest host! (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Foucault you! (5.00 / 1)
Actually dianetics is something I'm too familiar with. Both of my uncles got into scientology in college, probably to escape and 'clear' themselves of their equally wacky Christian Scientist upbringing. Long story short; for decades both of them were pretty high in the hierarchy, now one is an activist against, he gives speeches and whatnot and is well known in the ex-community.

And yes I am black. Ask anyone. I can also dance fool.


[ Parent ]
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